Is Jehovah Jesus, or God the Father?

[Massorite]

What do you mean different religions? Only Christianity recognizes God and Jesus as Jehovah. Are you meaning other denominations? I wouldn't expect any other religion to know.

Sorry, I should have specified. Biblicist gave us definitions of denominations and religions. So I guess you could say they were different Christian denominations that were confused on the subject of Jesus being Jehovah.

Now, what I would like to know is who classified Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses as "non-Christian?" Anyone who makes that assumption is misinformed. But, as a Mormon, I enjoy being in my own "category."

I realize that Morman's do not believe in the Trinity and believe that Jehovah is Jesus. So with that in mind and knowing you believe that God is separate, my simple question is "Where is God in the Hebrew Scriptures?"

I am not trying to be smart, but no one has ever answered that question for me.

Your question is strange to me. The God in the Hebrew Scriptures is right there, smack dab in the middle of it all! the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit are right there on every page.

i'm surprised no one pointed this out. Jehovah is a linguistic mistake. Jehovah did not appear until 1530 first off. The written Hebrew did not use vowels until a bit later, the originals read YHWH, that's the expression in English for God. The name of God, "YHWH" became too sacred to pronounce among many Hebrew's, so where ever YHWH appeared, the scribes added vowel marks signaling the reader to say, "Adonai", ( Greek= Kyrios, Latin Dominus, English Lord) which was substituted for the unspeakable YHWH, instead of yaweh. The result of this, is if your not aware that your supposed to read "Adonai" it sounds like "Yahowah", or Jehovah. Jehovah is not the name of God, it's a mix of yaweh, and Adonnai.

As for Christ being like yaweh, I believe so. They are of the 'same substance', one nature three persons, which I believe was adressed earlier. I can't emphasize enough though that, "Jehovah" is a linguistic mistake lol.

God bless all, Beatus Dei, ave Christos!

Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

God was in the burning bush. God was walking in the garden, God was "Us" in Gen. 3:22, God was three men who stood by Abraham in Gen. 18:1 & 2, God came looking for Moses to slay him in Ex. 4:24, God wrestled with Jacob all night in Gen.32:24-28 and Jesus, He was the King of Salem in Gen. 14:18

[Massorite]

What do you mean different religions? Only Christianity recognizes God and Jesus as Jehovah. Are you meaning other denominations? I wouldn't expect any other religion to know.

Sorry, I should have specified. Biblicist gave us definitions of denominations and religions. So I guess you could say they were different Christian denominations that were confused on the subject of Jesus being Jehovah.

Now, what I would like to know is who classified Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses as "non-Christian?" Anyone who makes that assumption is misinformed. But, as a Mormon, I enjoy being in my own "category."

I realize that Morman's do not believe in the Trinity and believe that Jehovah is Jesus. So with that in mind and knowing you believe that God is separate, my simple question is "Where is God in the Hebrew Scriptures?"

I am not trying to be smart, but no one has ever answered that question for me.

Your question is strange to me. The God in the Hebrew Scriptures is right there, smack dab in the middle of it all! the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit are right there on every page.

i'm surprised no one pointed this out. Jehovah is a linguistic mistake. Jehovah did not appear until 1530 first off. The written Hebrew did not use vowels until a bit later, the originals read YHWH, that's the expression in English for God. The name of God, "YHWH" became too sacred to pronounce among many Hebrew's, so where ever YHWH appeared, the scribes added vowel marks signaling the reader to say, "Adonai", ( Greek= Kyrios, Latin Dominus, English Lord) which was substituted for the unspeakable YHWH, instead of yaweh. The result of this, is if your not aware that your supposed to read "Adonai" it sounds like "Yahowah", or Jehovah. Jehovah is not the name of God, it's a mix of yaweh, and Adonnai.

As for Christ being like yaweh, I believe so. They are of the 'same substance', one nature three persons, which I believe was adressed earlier. I can't emphasize enough though that, "Jehovah" is a linguistic mistake lol.

God bless all, Beatus Dei, ave Christos!

Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

God was in the burning bush. God was walking in the garden, God was "Us" in Gen. 3:22, God was three men who stood by Abraham in Gen. 18:1 & 2, God came looking for Moses to slay him in Ex. 4:24, God wrestled with Jacob all night in Gen.32:24-28 and Jesus, He was the King of Salem in Gen. 14:18

As for the Mormons. They read a totally different holy book then what the 99% of Christiandom reads which is what they call "Another Testament of Jesus Christ". Which is absolutely contradictory to what we are tought both in the new and the old testaments. Anybody who falls for this false testament is decieved by satan and will reap their just rewards for rejecting the living testament of Christ. Which is to suffer eternal darkness and pain.

Repent and be baptized Survus Christi and you shall be saved from the eternal burning.

[Treasure]

umm....what was the OP again. I got so caught up in the reading and everyone's interpretations........

God = One in essense three in person.

[Guest rekrul]

Rebmilc,

First of all, as to your link to Mr. Bowman Jr's article, I have no interest in reading what his opinions are on the subject.. I was simply making a point with regards to what the Bible says, not taking what the Bible says and making it fit what I believe. It's simple reasoning. Now I can't give you any link to where you can go and reason, but try it, meditate on whether or not your co-eternal God Jesus died or didn't die. If he died, he didn't go to Paradise "today" as is your interpretation. If he didn't die, then there was no ransom, therefore the Bible lied. So, do you deny the ransom?

So actually Rebmilc, perhaps you should define trinity. I see there is so much confusion on this topic. I see a Mormon being told he doesn't believe the trinity when indeed he does. The LDS web-site says it plainly. The difference though is that they believe that they are separate. Before we can discuss further the trinity, explain what you think it is.

My comment: "The council of Nicaea introduced this thought into Christianity, not the Apostles or first century Christians

[Rebmilc]

Rebmilc,

First of all, as to your link to Mr. Bowman Jr's article, I have no interest in reading what his opinions are on the subject.. I was simply making a point with regards to what the Bible says, not taking what the Bible says and making it fit what I believe. It's simple reasoning. Now I can't give you any link to where you can go and reason, but try it, meditate on whether or not your co-eternal God Jesus died or didn't die. If he died, he didn't go to Paradise "today" as is your interpretation. If he didn't die, then there was no ransom, therefore the Bible lied. So, do you deny the ransom?

So actually Rebmilc, perhaps you should define trinity. I see there is so much confusion on this topic. I see a Mormon being told he doesn't believe the trinity when indeed he does. The LDS web-site says it plainly. The difference though is that they believe that they are separate. Before we can discuss further the trinity, explain what you think it is.

My comment: "The council of Nicaea introduced this thought into Christianity, not the Apostles or first century Christians

Edited July 30, 2007 by Rebmilc

[Guest]

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 3:16

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."

Colossians 2:8-9

Just noticed that your log in name "rekrul" is "Lurker" backwards

Why can't you come clean and tell us whether or not you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

Nicely Done!

Falsely Stating Christians Believe In Three Separate Gods Is Indeed A JW Thing.

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Mark 12:29

Of Course, Any Book Publisher Who Would Take His Crayola And Cross Out The Many Names Of God Found Within The Holy Book Would Have No Problem Twisting A Believer's Statement Of Faith.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6

No Wonder He Missed The LDS Belief In Millions And Billions And Trillions Of Gods!

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 4:3-6

See Jesus - See God - Be Blessed

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:1-5

Dear Brother Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Number 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest rekrul]

So Rebmilc, are you really a Climber? Does that matter? Did I ask what your faith was? In reality, it doesn't matter what faith I am. I could be a Jehovah Witness maybe a Seventh Day Adventist or maybe a House of Yahwah member. You are "Born Again", I am a "Bible Student".

As for courage: I think being the only one on the board of 10 pages to argue legitimately that Jesus is not Jehovah is courageous. If you don't, that's fine.

As for Hebrews 1:3, most reference works that's read on the subject claim that is proof. I apologize if you do not. If you do, who then is reaching for straws?

If you do not wish to continue this discussion...I would be sorry to hear that.

[Guest rekrul]

FresnoJoe, nice jabs, though your words were not seasoned with salt. (Col. 4:6) I would expect better from a Christian.

Much like your friend the Rebmilc, you really should research the origin of the trinity as it seems you don't know what you believe.

Here are some scriptures for you to think about.

John 1:18 - No man has seen God and yet you say Jesus is fully man, fully God, so man actually has seen God, right? What about the Apostles?

Jesus said at John 17:3 that there is only one true God and "one thou didst send - Jesus Christ". Not one Trinune God.

Revelation 1:1: A revelation of Jesus which GOD gave him. Why did God give it to him? Because he didn't know. (Mark 13:32)

Revelation 3:14 calls Jesus the beginning of the creation of God which ties in nicely with Proverbs 8:22-31.

John 10:18 proves Jesus laid down his life out of obedience to his Father because it Yahweh's commandment. Why, let Jesus answer at John 14:28. If Jesus as a man is still fully God, why is the Father greater? Co-equal? No.

[Rebmilc]

So Rebmilc, are you really a Climber? Does that matter? Did I ask what your faith was? In reality, it doesn't matter what faith I am. I could be a Jehovah Witness maybe a Seventh Day Adventist or maybe a House of Yahwah member. You are "Born Again", I am a "Bible Student".

As for courage: I think being the only one on the board of 10 pages to argue legitimately that Jesus is not Jehovah is courageous. If you don't, that's fine.

As for Hebrews 1:3, most reference works that's read on the subject claim that is proof. I apologize if you do not. If you do, who then is reaching for straws?

If you do not wish to continue this discussion...I would be sorry to hear that.

The difference with our names though rekrul is that I put mine on my profile for all to see and read you haven't got the courage to do that. So tell me why should I debate the Holy word of God with someone who cannot stand for what they believe?

[WayneB]

Did I ask what your faith was? In reality, it doesn't matter what faith I am. I could be a Jehovah Witness maybe a Seventh Day Adventist or maybe a House of Yahwah member. You are "Born Again", I am a "Bible Student".

Yes it does matter rekrul. We are a privately funded, non-denominational Christian ministry. We invite both believers and unbelievers to join our boards but we do have restrictions. We do not let unbelievers participate in discussions relating to doctrine, which is why we have these forums in the Inner Court.

You can read our Statement of Beliefs. One defining reality, as we understand God's word, is that Jesus is God. There is no debate allowed regarding that TRUTH in the Inner Court. Those "religions" who do not teach that Jesus is God are apostate and cannot be considered Christian in our opinion. Since we are privately funded and privately owned, we can enforce that distinction based on our understanding.

Therefore, who is Jesus to you? If you deny His divinty, you are still welcome here but discussion will be limited to the Outer Court area... and as long as you do not violate our Terms of Service, you can stay for as long as you like.

So please clarify... who is Jesus to you, rekrul?

May the Lord Bless you richly,

wayne, your servant