Why do you add to the Lord's Prayer?

[Guest yod]

oy...christinity is in more trouble than I thought.

May I ask you what exactly you mean by that statement?

I meant to say that christianity is in more trouble than I previously thought...

No translation is perfect. Some are not even good!

But to paraphrase a translation? That's just wrong.

If God's Word doesn't make sense to you like it is, the problem is best solved by studying with the text more earnestly....not "dumbing it down".

Paraphrase editions are rife with error even moreso than bad translations.

NIV is a good translation for the Tenach, NASB and NKJV are good for the new covenant scriptures....

Yet even those versions have serious, serious problems of clarity when compared to the original languages.

[Guest shiloh357]

That's right. It is a wonderful paraphrase! The Lord's Prayer is an outline for us to follow, and as such, the paraphrase does a very good job of it. Our prayers can hope to be as well done following Jesus' guide.

It is such a sad thing that people can't trust a paraphrase done by Godly people who seek God's guidance in what they endeavor to do. I really am disheartened to see in other threads how there is a kind of paranoia around it. too bad. We should have confidence in the Holy Spirit that He would never lead us astray.

After all, when we are using Jesus' guide to pray, don't we entirely paraphrase and ad lib? I should hope so! Christianity is not in any trouble. We must stop being so negative. It is alive and free, and growing by leaps and bounds!

I often wonder about those poor people in other countries such as Africa who have Bibles that are translated into their languages, do they have the REAL Bible? There are hundreds of languages. How do we know that the Bible is not losing integrity every time it is being interpreted into another language? Maybe we should have Faith in God's ability to preserve His Message, His Holy Word. I am pretty sure that when He created all the different languages at the Tower of Babel He realized that His Word would need to be translated into each one so everyone could learn more about Him.

Any language can have genuine, or "real" translations. The issue is that a paraphrase is one person's take on what the Bible says. When you read a paraphrase, you are not reading the Bible. You are reading what someone else THINKS the Bible says. ANYONE can write a paraphrase. Anyone can put the Bible in their own words. When you read a paraphrase you are really reading someone else's theology, and depending how wrong or right they are, if you trust a paraphrase you are trusting in man and not the Holy Spirit.

[Guest shiloh357]

As for the "Lord's Prayer." It is really an abridged version of the Daily "Amidah" or "standing prayer" that observant Jews pray three times everyday.

The same prayer prayed today was prayed by observant Jews 2,000 years ago. For example when Jesus begins by say "Hallowed by thy name" it corresponds to the "Kedushim haShem" which is at the beginning of the Amidah. Jesus prays about forgiveness which corresponds to the Selikhah section of the Amidah and so forth. Everything in the Lord 's prayer is in the Amidah. Furthermore the Lord's prayer if you notice is in the "plural." "Give us this day..." "Forgive us our trespasses..." Lead us not into temptation..." Jewish prayer, is always plural. The entire Amidah is plural. Jews pray for "us" instead of "me." If everyone is praying for "us" then "me" is covered.

Jesus did not say, "pray this prayer." He said "after this manner, pray." There is a big difference.

[Ovedya]

As for the "Lord's Prayer." It is really an abridged version of the Daily "Amidah" or "standing prayer" that observant Jews pray three times everyday.

The same prayer prayed today was prayed by observant Jews 2,000 years ago. For example when Jesus begins by say "Hallowed by thy name" it corresponds to the "Kedushim haShem" which is at the beginning of the Amidah. Jesus prays about forgiveness which corresponds to the Selikhah section of the Amidah and so forth. Everything in the Lord 's prayer is in the Amidah. Furthermore the Lord's prayer if you notice is in the "plural." "Give us this day..." "Forgive us our trespasses..." Lead us not into temptation..." Jewish prayer, is always plural. The entire Amidah is plural. Jews pray for "us" instead of "me." If everyone is praying for "us" then "me" is covered.

Jesus did not say, "pray this prayer." He said "after this manner, pray." There is a big difference.

Amen! It's a pattern for prayer!

[Guest Biblicist]

That's right. It is a wonderful paraphrase! The Lord's Prayer is an outline for us to follow, and as such, the paraphrase does a very good job of it. Our prayers can hope to be as well done following Jesus' guide.

It is such a sad thing that people can't trust a paraphrase done by Godly people who seek God's guidance in what they endeavor to do. I really am disheartened to see in other threads how there is a kind of paranoia around it. too bad. We should have confidence in the Holy Spirit that He would never lead us astray.

After all, when we are using Jesus' guide to pray, don't we entirely paraphrase and ad lib? I should hope so! Christianity is not in any trouble. We must stop being so negative. It is alive and free, and growing by leaps and bounds!

I often wonder about those poor people in other countries such as Africa who have Bibles that are translated into their languages, do they have the REAL Bible? There are hundreds of languages. How do we know that the Bible is not losing integrity every time it is being interpreted into another language? Maybe we should have Faith in God's ability to preserve His Message, His Holy Word. I am pretty sure that when He created all the different languages at the Tower of Babel He realized that His Word would need to be translated into each one so everyone could learn more about Him.

Any language can have genuine, or "real" translations. The issue is that a paraphrase is one person's take on what the Bible says. When you read a paraphrase, you are not reading the Bible. You are reading what someone else THINKS the Bible says. ANYONE can write a paraphrase. Anyone can put the Bible in their own words. When you read a paraphrase you are really reading someone else's theology, and depending how wrong or right they are, if you trust a paraphrase you are trusting in man and not the Holy Spirit.

I think Pastor's do a great disservice to their congregations in translating the Bible for them instead of teaching them to translate it for themselves. If more knowledgeable Pastors would teach their congregations to read and interpret the Bible for themselves, [understanding Hermeneutics, the languages, etc] there would be less confusion, and fewer English translations. No need for paraphrased versions. IMHO

[Masked Chris]

When I pray with Protestants, I add the "Protestant" ending to the Lord's Prayer out of respect for their tradition.

But, considering you are "sola Scriptura", why do you add to the prayer taught by Jesus???

Thanks,

F

Hi. It's one line and it's a praise to God! I don't think it's a major crime.

[Floatingaxe]

Christianity is not in any trouble. We must stop being so negative. It is alive and free, and growing by leaps and bounds!

Paul disagrees with you, and so do I.

No where in the Bible is it taught that Christianity will grow by leaps and bounds in the last days as you claim, which we are living in.

In fact it says the opposite.

There will be great apostasy! A great falling away from the faith.

II Thessalonians 1:3

II Timothy 3

Read all about it in the Holy Book

We must stop being so negative

Positive thinking does not equate faith in Jesus Christ nor does it represent the truth of God's Word.

Positive thinking comes from a life that is patterned after Jesus Christ, and as the Holy Spirit lives in us, we have no business entertaining negativity. That is Hell's domain. How can one be anything but positive?

The Church is experiencing a burgeoning period. The apostasy is not upon us just yet...you are being negative! Methinks you are jumping the gun a bit.

[ray]

Here is copy of the Lord's Prayer That I find makes me roll on the laughing

The Lord's Prayer

Our Father who art in heaven.

YES?

Don't interrupt me. I'm praying.

BUT -- YOU CALLED ME.

Called you? No, I didn't call you. I'm praying. Our Father who art in heaven.

THERE -- YOU DID IT AGAIN!

Did what?

CALLED ME. YOU SAID, "OUR FATHER, WHO ART IN HEAVEN." WELL, HERE I AM,. WHAT'S ON YOUR MIND?

But, I didn't mean anything by it. I was, you know, just saying my prayers for the day. I always say the Lord's Prayer. It makes me feel good, kind of like fulfilling a duty.

WELL, ALL RIGHT. GO ON.

Okay, Hallowed be Thy name...

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

By what?

HALLOWED

It means, it means ... good grief, I don't know what it means. How in the world should I know? It's just a part of the prayer. By the way, what does it mean?

IT MEANS HONORED, HOLY, WONDERFUL.

Hey, that makes sense. I never thought about what 'hallowed' meant before. Thanks. Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven.

DO YOU REALLY MEAN THAT?

Sure, why not?

WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT?

Doing? Why, nothing, I guess. I just think it would be kind of neat if you got control of everything down here like you have up there. We're kinda in a mess down here you know.

YES, I KNOW; BUT, HAVE I GOT CONTROL OF YOU?

Well, I go to church.

THAT ISN'T WHAT I ASKED YOU. WHAT ABOUT YOUR BAD TEMPER? YOU'VE REALLY GOT A PROBLEM THERE, YOU KNOW. AND THEN THERE'S THE WAY YOU SPEND YOUR MONEY -- ALL ON YOURSELF. AND WHAT ABOUT THE KIND OF BOOKS YOU READ?

Now hold on just a minute! Stop picking on me! I'm just as good as some of the rest of those people at church!

EXCUSE ME. I THOUGHT YOU WERE PRAYING FOR MY WILL TO BE DONE. IF THAT IS TO HAPPEN, IT WILL HAVE TO START WITH THE ONES WHO ARE PRAYING FOR IT. LIKE YOU -- FOR EXAMPLE.

Oh, all right. I guess I do have some hang-ups. Now that you mention it, I could probably name some others.

SO COULD I.

I haven't thought about it very much until now, but I really would like to cut out some of those things. I would like to, you know, be really free.

GOOD. NOW WE'RE GETTING SOMEWHERE. WE'LL WORK TOGETHER -- YOU AND ME. I'M PROUD OF YOU!

Look, Lord, if you don't mind, I need to finish up here. This is taking a lot longer than it usually does. Give us this day, our daily bread.

YOU NEED TO CUT OUT THE BREAD. YOU'RE OVERWEIGHT AS IT IS.

Hey, wait a minute! What is this? Here I was doing my religious duty, and all of a sudden you break in and remind me of all my hang-ups.

PRAYING IS A DANGEROUS THING. YOU JUST MIGHT GET WHAT YOU ASK FOR. REMEMBER, YOU CALLED ME -- AND HERE I AM. IT'S TOO LATE TO STOP NOW. KEEP PRAYING.

..pause...

WELL, GO ON.

I'm scared to.

SCARED? OF WHAT?

I know what you'll say.

TRY ME.

Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.

WHAT ABOUT CAROL?

See? I knew it! I knew you would bring her up! Why, Lord, she's told lies about me, spread stories. She never paid back the money she owes me. I've sworn to get even with her!

BUT -- YOUR PRAYER -- WHAT ABOUT YOUR PRAYER?

I didn't -- mean it.

WELL, AT LEAST YOU'RE HONEST. BUT, IT'S QUITE A LOAD CARRYING AROUND ALL THAT BITTERNESS AND RESENTMENT, ISN'T IT?

Yes, but I'll feel better as soon as I get even with her. Boy, have I got some plans for her. She'll wish she had never been born.

NO, YOU WON'T FEEL ANY BETTER. YOU'LL FEEL WORSE. REVENGE ISN'T SWEET. YOU KNOW HOW UNHAPPY YOU ARE -- WELL, I CAN CHANGE THAT.

You can? How?

FORGIVE CAROL. THEN, I'LL FORGIVE YOU; AND THE HATE AND SIN WILL BE CAROL'S PROBLEM -- NOT YOURS. YOU WILL HAVE SETTLED THE PROBLEM AS FAR AS YOU ARE CONCERNED.

Oh, you know, you're right. You always are. And more than I want revenge, I want to be right with You..., (sigh). All right...all right...I forgive her.

THERE NOW! WONDERFUL! HOW DO YOU FEEL?

Hmmmm. Well, not bad. Not bad at all! In fact, I feel pretty great! You know, I don't think I'll go to bed uptight tonight. I haven't been getting much rest, you know.

YEAH, I KNOW. BUT, YOU'RE NOT THROUGH WITH YOUR PRAYER ARE YOU? GO ON.

Oh, all right. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

GOOD! GOOD! I'LL DO THAT. JUST DON'T PUT YOURSELF IN A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN BE TEMPTED.

What do you mean by that?

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

Yeah. I know.

OKAY. GO AHEAD. FINISH YOUR PRAYER.

For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory forever. Amen.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BRING ME GLORY -- WHAT WOULD REALLY MAKE ME HAPPY?

No, but I'd like to know. I want to please you now. I've really made a mess of things. I want to truly follow you. I can see now how great that would be. So, tell me ... how do I make you happy?

YOU JUST DID

[Guest yod]

That was fabbo, RAy!

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"positive thinking" is an aspect of buddism.

I have the peace that passes that kind of understanding...which makes me honest as well as being filled with joy!

And honestly? Christianity (especially the American version) is in trouble.

I am "positive" that God will use it for the good of those whom He has called according to His purpose though!!!

When you read a paraphrase you are really reading someone else's theology, and depending how wrong or right they are, if you trust a paraphrase you are trusting in man and not the Holy Spirit.

When you read a TRANSLATION you are really reading someone else's theology in many ways also. Whenever one is translating a language there are choices about which words best convey something that doesn't really match

But you do the best you can and let the author say whatever it is they are saying whether you can convey the meaning exactly or not.

A paraphrase is almost pure opinion in many places. They take great liberty in trying to put themselves into the story and tell you their point of view.

Verrrrry different that just letting the Holy Spirit speak!