Global Warming: The Cold, Hard Facts?

[forrestkc]

I think you guys are missing my point when I describe scientists as generally being apolitical. It is a common and rather absurd assertion by some people that there is some big conspiracy in the scientific community to push some socialist agenda. My point was there is really no evidence to suggest that the vast majority of scientists are active in politics at all, at least outside of where politics and their specific scientific discipline meets.

[forrestkc]

In high school? In elementary education?

That was not the point. The point was that scientists can be, and are, just as political as many other institutions. They are political out of necessity in their own fields, in the institutions from which they teach, and in terms of getting government funding for their research.

Lobbyists for different environmental groups can raise money to pay for research just as well as Big Oil and Big Energy.

The difference is that while the Nature Conservancy is funding research, Exxon and AEI are simply paying for propaganda. Certainly you can see the difference between a research grant, and being a paid lobbyist.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Forrest,

I've never claimed a vast conspiracy of left wing whacko's.

It's more in league with how you perceive the wold. In essence what your worldview is.

Most of the scientists who are in league with your findings tend to feel that man can control the environment, while there exists no proof whatsoever that this is a reality.

While the people who take the opposite view understand that we cannot even begin to make even a small dent in what is happening Globally.

It's kind of funny too because I actually saw a Movie where the Environment, Mother Nature. Lashed out at the evil corrupt America and the Northern Hemisphere completely covering it in Ice.

In this Movie it was quite visible that mankind could not outwit the forces of nature. The thing was though that they inhabited the environment and nature with a mind of it's own. Making it God and passing up the fact that there is a God in Heaven.

The message is messed up though. Simply because the same environmentalists who say that we are doomed, that we have no time left and that it is already too late. Are also the same ones demanding that we act immediately. Why not just build an Ice Ark?

I remember Al Gore and a host of other folks in the late Nineties saying that if we did not act in the next five years or so that it would be too late. There were folks earlier on saying we had less than 10 years left and we would all be doomed. The Prophecy of that Movie was predicted. Yet here we are.

When were here in another ten years, what will they say then?

I also remember way back in the Eighties and the predictions of Global Cooling and that if we didn't stop emitting CFC's that we were all doomed to being a frozen chunk of ice. Now it's just the Northern Hemisphere apparently.

No, I don't see a vast left wing agenda. What I do see is a world view. In this world view America is the culprit. The Western way of life must be sacrificed lest the whole planet perish.

Truth be known it is the Western way of life that is preserving the environment. Take a trip down to South America sometimes and watch the huge tubes, the size of your living room, full of untreated wastewater pouring forth into the Atlantic Ocean.

There is a world view that takes the Western way of life and Western mindset and thought to include Judeo/Christian values as the main culprit.

Unfortunately as they tear down this culture they contribute to her enemies ultimate goal. They also take down the Societies that brought us an end to Slavery as well things like Womens rights. Not too mention civil rights. End America and everything the left holds dear dies with it.

As I have said in another thread. If it were not so insideously aimed at my children and their future. I wouldn't hold much animous towards it.

It's a sham in which well meaning people are caught up because they look at things emotionally rather than rationally.

Conspiracy, Naw! Two different mindsets at war with each other is what it boils down to.

Peace,

Dave

[EricH]

Secondly, most scientists are apolitical they could less about politics either way except for when politicians try to influence or restrict science.

Are you sure?

Yes I am.

How do you know? Have you hung out with scientists and research facilities?

How many scientists have you ever know to run for any form of public office?

That is not really the pertinent question. The real question is what do the scientists have to gain (in the form of grants etc) by seeing certain political parties in office. To claim the science has not bias is simply untrue. No one is free of bias. Anyone that claims they are, should be avoided

[forrestkc]

Grace to you,

Forrest,

I've never claimed a vast conspiracy of left wing whacko's.

It's more in league with how you perceive the wold. In essence what your worldview is.

Most of the scientists who are in league with your findings tend to feel that man can control the environment, while there exists no proof whatsoever that this is a reality.

While the people who take the opposite view understand that we cannot even begin to make even a small dent in what is happening Globally.

It's kind of funny too because I actually saw a Movie where the Environment, Mother Nature. Lashed out at the evil corrupt America and the Northern Hemisphere completely covering it in Ice.

In this Movie it was quite visible that mankind could not outwit the forces of nature. The thing was though that they inhabited the environment and nature with a mind of it's own. Making it God and passing up the fact that there is a God in Heaven.

The message is messed up though. Simply because the same environmentalists who say that we are doomed, that we have no time left and that it is already too late. Are also the same ones demanding that we act immediately. Why not just build an Ice Ark?

I remember Al Gore and a host of other folks in the late Nineties saying that if we did not act in the next five years or so that it would be too late. There were folks earlier on saying we had less than 10 years left and we would all be doomed. The Prophecy of that Movie was predicted. Yet here we are.

When were here in another ten years, what will they say then?

I also remember way back in the Eighties and the predictions of Global Cooling and that if we didn't stop emitting CFC's that we were all doomed to being a frozen chunk of ice. Now it's just the Northern Hemisphere apparently.

No, I don't see a vast left wing agenda. What I do see is a world view. In this world view America is the culprit. The Western way of life must be sacrificed lest the whole planet perish.

Truth be known it is the Western way of life that is preserving the environment. Take a trip down to South America sometimes and watch the huge tubes, the size of your living room, full of untreated wastewater pouring forth into the Atlantic Ocean.

There is a world view that takes the Western way of life and Western mindset and thought to include Judeo/Christian values as the main culprit.

Unfortunately as they tear down this culture they contribute to her enemies ultimate goal. They also take down the Societies that brought us an end to Slavery as well things like Womens rights. Not too mention civil rights. End America and everything the left holds dear dies with it.

As I have said in another thread. If it were not so insideously aimed at my children and their future. I wouldn't hold much animous towards it.

It's a sham in which well meaning people are caught up because they look at things emotionally rather than rationally.

Conspiracy, Naw! Two different mindsets at war with each other is what it boils down to.

Peace,

Dave

You made several different points, so I am going to try to address each of them individually as best I can.

After reading your post, it seems that you position is the following:

1. Man cannot have any global effects on the environment or change climate.

2. There is no evidence that human activity has altered climate.

3. A few years ago environmentalists were warning us that if we did not take action soon, it would be to late.

4. Back in the 80s they were talking about CFCs and Global Cooling.

5. We are doing a far better job of environmental protection than many other nations are.

As to your first and second points. Yes, man can and has significantly altered the environment. For example, today some 40% of the earth

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Forrest,

Actually the point of my whole entire post was that there are two different world views at play here. You did not address that.

I was using the other material to back this statement.

What is your feeling on this?

Peace,

Dave

[forrestkc]

Grace to you,

Forrest,

Actually the point of my whole entire post was that there are two different world views at play here. You did not address that.

I was using the other material to back this statement.

What is your feeling on this?

Peace,

Dave

I think I did address it. If not please correct me. I pointed out that there is a solid scientific basis for the notion that human activity can alter climate, and that western industrialization nations, have a far greater influence on climate than developing nations currently have.

Scientists do not chose their beliefs on science. They accept them. If empiracle evidence supports a notion, then scientists merely accept the notion, they do not choose to just believe or disbelieve in it.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

So you do agree with the general consensus of the U.N. that Western Nations and the Western way of life. In specific, America, are to blame for the alteration of the Climate.

Do you also agree with the U.N. that America should pay the lions share of the cost of reducing carbon emissions? Also in further curtailing them.

What do you think that will do to the Economy and do you have any sincere concerns at all over the damage it will do to American business and Americans personal security at all?

When I say that I mean Job security and Economic security.

Lastly, do you think the U.N. has an anti-American bias?

Peace,

Dave

[forrestkc]

Grace to you,

So you do agree with the general consensus of the U.N. that Western Nations and the Western way of life. In specific, America, are to blame for the alteration of the Climate.

Well, I would simply submit the following:

It is the scientific consensus that CO2 emissions a result of human activity since the industrial era began is the primary climate forcing mechanism behind our current warming and projected future warming.

If you compare CO2 emissions between the United States and the developing world you find that:

19.8 US carbon dioxide emissions per capita, in metric tons

1.8 Developing world's carbon dioxide emissions per head, in tons

The United States is the world

[kat8585]

So the US emits more CO2 than other nations. Big deal. That's not what causes global warming. The liberals who are using this to get more of our money must think we are totally stupid to fall for this. I have to admit it has the potential to dupe a lot of people, tho. I think some of them actually do believe it.