Is Eternal Life Available to All?

[Guest shiloh357]

LadyC

i fail to comprehend how one can discuss eternal life without discussing salvation.

You can't. The two are the same. He is grasping at straws in a futile attempt to make the distinction. He is also ignoring rest of the NT. He is doing what is called "Isogesis." It is a form of biblical interpretation where you pour YOUR meaning into scripture instead of allowing the Bible speak for itself, and interpret istelf.

When one believes on Christ, he or she automatically recieves eternal life, and is saved from Hell. That is Christianity 101. John 5:24, and 1 John 5:11-13 tell us that we can know that we have eternal life right now.

[Guest Calamity]

SHAMAN: "My point for this discussion, if you will allow me to speak about what I posted, is there are people who already have a passion for God that comes from their highest emotion - their divine self..."

-------------------------

Me: We have no divine self. That's New Age teachings.

I really hope your posting name "Shaman" has nothing to do with Shamanism.

http://www.wordiq.com/cgi-bin/knowledge/lo...title=Shamanism

----------------------------

SHAMAN: "Every Christian should know that salvation is freely given to the unbeliever."

-----------------

Me: The "unbeliever" is not saved, and does not have eternal life. Salvation is given freely to those who believe.

Gal.3

[22] But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

John 3

[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

-------------------

SHAMAN: "Neither did Jesus at any time in NT Scripture offer eternal life to all who believed. It is just not in the Bible."

-----------------

Me: Look again:

John 3

[14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5

[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

John 10

[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

[30] I and my Father are one.

John 17

[1] These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

[2] As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

[3] And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Acts 13

[46] Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

[47] For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

[48] And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Romans 5

[8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

[17] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

[21] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6

[23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Titus 3

[4] But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

[6] Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

[7] That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I John 2

[25] And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1John.5

[4] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

[5] Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

[10] He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

[11] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

[12] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

[20] And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

[Dad Ernie]

Great responses Calamity. I have my own "feelings" about Shaman, but will hold them till all his true colors show through.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest Shaman]

I am not flattered that you all are more concerned with Shaman than you are with God's word.

Ernie Dad is a number one doubter, so worldly credentials are his concern instead spiritual discernment. How sad.

Calamity wants to accentuate a typo. She couldn't tell that the word unbelievers should've been believers after extensive dialogue? Then she wants to know why I picked the name they did. Hello! Calamity? Well, for your information I am a hugh fan of Carlos Santana and that is the name of the album I play most often, it was either that or his album "supernatural."

Eric just hates Methodist and some other type (I forgot and it is not worth looking up) of ministers, probably all ministers.

Shiloh nor Calamity understand the spiritual or divine self, although they profess to have divinity residing within them. Neither do they understand that God breathed Spirit into their nosrils, making them flesh, soul, and spirit. So, they can't know what a godly or divine love is as they have demonstrated.

You all are in need of help spiritually. So, I recommend that you read the work Will God's Strong Delusion' Deceive You? If you are sincere about spiritual growth it will be most helpful to you. It is on this site. But, I warn you it will open you to the deeper meaning of God's word.

The reason why I posted this subject was because many of our youth and those of other religions see Christianity as a religion of con artists and self-righteous hypocrites, and of course they want nothing to with people like that. So, of course the best case scenario to me is to use the most extreme argument. Although, I do truly believe their are those who want to free of the confusion that goes on in Christendom. They are just looking to love God, learn his word, and do good to others.

As long as Satan can keep the true people of God from coming together in unity, he can pretty much have his way. I understand why there is much pressure to put forth false doctrine on these message boards. I understand why there are those that will fight tooth and nail to keep God's people bound with the lie that salvation equals eternal life. That is what Satan wants us to believe. How does one read the words of Christ and openly refute them without another agenda. Satan twists the words of God, but Believers ought not be fooled. But, if you are not careful you will accept a lie and believe it as truth.

You all claim to be Believers, but you are not. Since you reject the words of Jesus himself, I can only assume that your purpose is to stir up controversy and confusion. So, now that everybody knows everybody, let's continue.

Shaman

[Guest LadyC]

shaman, we ARE believers. YOU preach heresy. i pray that none be decieved by your teachings. if they are, their blood will be on your hands come judgement day.

[Guest Calamity]

Shaman, you posted this:

SHAMAN: "Neither did Jesus at any time in NT Scripture offer eternal life to all who believed. It is just not in the Bible."

-----------------------

I posted several Scriptures that showed otherwise. Who is it, that is not believing the Word of God?

Here they are again:

------------------------

John 3

[14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5

[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

John 10

[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

[30] I and my Father are one.

John 17

[1] These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

[2] As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

[3] And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Acts 13

[46] Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

[47] For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

[48] And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Romans 5

[8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

[17] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

[21] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6

[23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Titus 3

[4] But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

[6] Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

[7] That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I John 2

[25] And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1John.5

[4] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

[5] Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

[10] He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

[11] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

[12] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

[20] And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

[Guest LadyC]

calamity, give up. no offense, but your wasting your time. shaman is not interested in the truth, nor in leading others to Christ. he seems only to be interested in trying to draw people AWAY from Christ. a methodist priest? he should be reported and have his ordination revoked. he sounds like a universalist to me.

and shaman, i must say this... you told eric you'd pray for him. well, please don't pray for me, under any circumstances. i don't know who hears your prayers.

[Guest Calamity]

calamity, give up. no offense, but your wasting your time. shaman is not interested in the truth, nor in leading others to Christ. he seems only to be interested in trying to draw people AWAY from Christ. a methodist priest? he should be reported and have his ordination revoked. he sounds like a universalist to me.

and shaman, i must say this... you told eric you'd pray for him. well, please don't pray for me, under any circumstances. i don't know who hears your prayers.

Lady C, no offense taken, and please don't take offense at my reply. If someone is saying something that is likely to draw people AWAY from Christ, it's almost impossible for me to not reply. Same with another poster who has not posted for a while now, that said some unbiblical things and persisted in trying to teach us. It needs to be replied to with Scripture, IMO. We don't know who all reads this message board, and if some things are let go, then non-Christians, or new Christians can be led astray and harmed spiritually, or never come to know Christ at all. That's why I try to reply to certain things.

[Tyler]

So basically everyone is wrong but Shaman. My, my aren't we fortunate to have someone pop by and set us all straight?

Maybe VOG, got hisself a new name?? :x:

Tyler

[Guest Shaman]

SHAMAN: "My point for this discussion, if you will allow me to speak about what I posted, is there are people who already have a passion for God that comes from their highest emotion - their divine self..."

Me: We have no divine self. That's New Age teachings.  I really hope your posting name "Shaman" has nothing to do with Shamanism.

To be honest with you, I had to look up Shamanism, as I chose the name because I am a fan of Carlos Santana's music and that is the name of my favorite album. However, I did not have to look up the meaning of Calamity. The site I used for this is: http://www.zenmind.org/article.html. I see that you have selected one for me, so I will check it out.

SHAMAN: "Every Christian should know that salvation is freely given to the unbeliever."

Me: The "unbeliever" is not saved, and does not have eternal life. Salvation is given freely to those who believe.

I would think that you would know that was typo. But, I can see you bringing that to my attention. Of course it should've been is "freely given unto the believer." In a discussion about one having love for and a relationship with God, I would think you would've understood that, so, let's move on to your next concern.

SHAMAN: "Neither did Jesus at any time in NT Scripture offer eternal life to all who believed. It is just not in the Bible." 

Me: Look again:  John 3 

[14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up [15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Notice that which you have highlighted in bold says believeth in him. The devils believe that Christ exist. They even knew him better than most Christians, but they didn't believe in him. How can you say you believe in him, when you reject his teachings. You just believe that he is.

John 5 [24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.  [39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

You can continue to quote scripture, but all of them will say you must believe in him, on him, in his word, or some facsimile to gain eternal life. None will say just believe. Those that will be rejected when he says depart from me I never knew you, believed that he was Lord, but they did not gain eternal life. Those that were led astray by false prophets believed that he was, but not in him. They believed he was the Son of God, just not in his word.

To believe in Jesus is to believe in the deeper things about him. Not that he just died on Calvary to save you from bondage. There is so much more that you must believe in. You can start by believing that he is our example, and then in his words.

John 10 [27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

This is the perfect example of what I am talking about. Those who follow his example, hear his words and live in them will gain eternal life.

Now you have got to believe that Jesus would have done and acted exactly the way that you all have acted if he was on the thread, if you all are following him.

All the Scriptures you have listed are saying the same thing. Jesus sums it up by saying that I will know my disciples by the love they show one to another. Those are the ones that he will keep .The rest he will say depart from me you workers of iniquity. One may have known him and believed that he was the Son of God, cast out demons in his name, healed the sick in his name, prophesied in his name, but he will say I never knew you.

Peace,

Shaman