Christians rejecting the Faith?

[Guest shiloh357]

One thing I see is a lack of understanding of the doctrine of salvation, or as it is called "soteriology." When a person becomes a Christian, sin no longer carries for that person the penalty of death. How do I know this Galatians 3 tells us that Christ has redeemed from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. The curse of the Law is death, or for our purposes here, spiritual death. Jesus has redeemed us from spiritual death. Jesus payed in full the penalty for sin. That means that all of God's justice was vindicated at the cross. All of God's wrath, and judgement for sin fell on Jesus. God has reconciled the world unto himself according to 2 Cor. 5 and we now have peace with God through Christ according Romans 5. You see, God is not angry with world anymore as it regards the sin issue. That does not mean that God is not going to eventually judge this world's system, but that is a different issue altogether. On a personal one on one basis though, God is not holding anything against anyone. He has been satisfied and now offers salvation to anyone who would but reach out and recieve it through faith. All that needs to be done for salvation, all the "conditions" that need to met, have found their fulfillment in Christ. One need only repent of their sin, and reach out recieve through faith the eternal life that God offers.

In Hebrews 10 it compares the blood of animals and the blood of Christ. It was those who offered the blood of animals that had to constantly go back and resacrifice and get their sins forgiven over and over again. There is but one sacrifice for sin today, and it is the sacrifice of Christ. Other than that there remains no sacrifice for sin. If you could no longer be saved, then you would NEVER get saved again, because there would need to be another sacrifice for you. Jesus is not going to get sacrificed again. He dealt with sin once and for all. If you get out of the New Covenant, you won't get back in. That is how blood covenants work. God is smart in that He has fool proofed salvation. He has fixed it so that you can't mess it up.

What about those who reject God after having been saved? Yes one could rebel in such a fashion. But that sin was payed for by Christ as well. That sin does not have the penaly of death, because Jesus payed for ALL sin. Besides, God will fight for you. He does not throw you away as quickly as you throw away those who do not like you. God will do everything He can to bring you back. I have more faith in the mercy of God than do many on this board. Salvation is not dependant on you holding on to God, it is dependant on God holding on to you. God disciplines His children who rebel against Him. If they were not still saved, they would not be disciplined by the Lord.

[Catsmeow]

Patsy:

My birth mother was married to a very handsome and intelligent man, (my Dad) and she had me, her firstborn.

My father properly supported us and he was faithful. He was a family man.

She chose to run around and sleep with all his buddies...and she abandoned BOTH of us.

My Dad raised me. I didn't find her again till I was 36. I was also the last person to be with her at her deathbed.

At any rate....WHY...WHY...WHY would she do this? Why leave a handsome, good and kind and hardworking man? I know him. He's my Dad. He wasn't some bum or loser.

WHY?

WHY do people chose to leave a loving, kind, forgiving, gentle, merciful, gracious, generous, giving, tender-hearted, patient and WONDERFUL

Father as our God?

WHY?

Why do people do stupid stuff? I dunno. They just...do.

[Catsmeow]

Besides, God will fight for you.

[Guest Calamity]

If OSAS is a doctrine that breeds lawless thinking, what kind of doctrine is it, that breeds arrogance?

[Catsmeow]

Who's arrogant?

[Guest Calamity]

Cats, I wasn't talking to you, LOL. It just showed up after your post. Read back through here, there are one or two posts that have just a 'touch' of arrogance.

[Catsmeow]

I don't like to blast people with a ton of scripture all at once...but these verses from Hebrews have something to say...

Check this out...

Hebrews 3:7-19

7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: Today, if you hear His voice, 8 do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the desert, 9 where your fathers tested Me, tried Me , and saw My works 10 for 40 years. Therefore I was provoked with this generation and said, "They always go astray in their hearts, and they have not known My ways." 11 So I swore in My anger, "They will not enter My rest." 12 Watch out, brothers, so that there won't be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart that departs from the living God.

There it is...that word, "departs"....from the living God.

We have a choice...but our God is SOOOOOOO good and patient...you have to run right over Him to lose Him. How can any of us think of abandoning our Lord?

Yet....people do.

[Guest shiloh357]

For God to say that for you to be saved, you must repent is NOT work; it is a condition that must be met. Only an antinomian construtes that as "trying to earn salvation".

Before using words like antinomian, you should actually learn how to use it and learn what it means because you applying it to the wrong subject and in the wrong context.

Did God believe for you? Did He also repent of your sins? Oh, you did those things. Are those "works of merit" or did you simply meet the conditions God set forth? Now, you'll probably say, "Well, that was before I was saved. But we don't have those 'works' to do now." Really?

You obviously do not have a grasp on my part of this discussion. You are just ranting.

If you cannot see the difference, then it is no surprise. OSAS teaches that obedience to God is a work.

You don't have a clue what OSAS teaches. Just more ranting.

Just sit back and rest because God did it all for you", OSAS says, while completely ignoring passages that commands us to avoid sin, stand firm, and endure to the end, claiming that to do so is "trying to earn you salvation". Sad.

[Catsmeow]

I don't mean to dominate the thread, honestly...but this one came to me, also...

Be patient...and just read it and tell me what you think, K?

Hebrews 4:1-3; 6-7

1 Therefore, while the promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear so that none of you should miss it. 2 For we also have received the good news just as they did; but the message they heard did not benefit them, since they were not united with those who heard it in faith 3 (for we who have believed enter the rest), in keeping with what He has said: So I swore in My anger, they will not enter My rest.

6 Since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again, He specifies a certain day-- today --speaking through David after such a long time, as previously stated: Today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.

The Holman Christian Standard Bible

Repentence is a choice people make. God is willing to forgive and embrace; we must be willing to conform to His likeness. A willing spirit is necessary - we can be a clay...soft and moldable or hardened in the sun...depending on the choices we make.

God wants us to make the choice to love and obey Him. He's so very patient and merciful...I know this full well!

[Guest shiloh357]

There it is...that word, "departs"....from the living God.

We have a choice...but our God is SOOOOOOO good and patient...you have to run right over Him to lose Him. How can any of us think of abandoning our Lord?

Yet....people do.

Cats,

I have wondered that too. How can a true Christian choose to completely abandon their faith? Even if they do, that sin was payed for by Christ. Even the sin of rebellion does not carry the penaly of death. God does not fight to keep you saved, he fights to bring you back into fellowship with Him.

I do believe that a Christian who rebels does pay a heavy price. There is much that will happen to someone. He/she will be punished for their rebellion. They will suffer loss at the judgement. They will live outiside God's protection. They may even die prematurely. I just do not think that they are expelled from the family.

I see people on this board not making the necessary disctinction between falling out of salvation and falling out of fellowship with God. A lot of people are posting scripture that I believe addresses falling out of God's favor or fellowship, but not necessarily falling out of salvation. For example when it talks about abiding in His love or not abiding in His love, that is a reference to fellowship, not rightstanding. One cannot lose rightstanding, but they can lose all of their rewards in the end.