The Role of Women in the New Testament Church

[spiritman]

Hum,

So we should rule out that some Bible passageses were meant for another culture besides ours. Ok then I'll bring the incense, if firehill will bring the Bull.

[EricH]

it's ok. Um ovedya I remember you said that based on what I was saying the Bible is not necessary, but I didn't mean that. The Bible is a framework for which all beliefs, and all spiritual things claiming goodness should fit into. It should never be ousted, never be misused, and never ever be denied it's holiness. However, as I was saying about the whole women thing that was cultural. Part of taking the Bible in context is to look at the culture. For instance, old jewish law like in Leviticus, were laws meant for the Israelites at that time. they are useful for our understanding of the culture of the Jewish people, and also to help understand the purpose of the Bible which is a story of God's love. When you look at the culture of the time in the Bible you realize all the symbolism that is in the Bible that we don't normally see because we have a different culture.

I understand what you are saying. Howver, simply saying that we should ignore or discard something in the Bible because it is no longer relevant is ignoring or discarding that the bible is the complete, true, and ever steadfast Word of God.

The problems I have with this statement is that no one is 'simply ignoring neither discarding' anything in the Bible and neither for the reason that 'it(?)' is no longer relevant. It's just that your summation, Ovedya, of such an opposing position is just your opinion expressed in your own words. It's accusing one of something that simply isn't true since if it were then you could prove it.

May I remind you of a statement you made in the "Should Women Remain Silent" thread?

Context, context, context. Historical, cultural, literary.

Simply, women should be silent as much as they all should be married.

Paul was actualy quoting his opponents!

In other posts you essentially argued that verses like 1 Cor. 14:34 and 1 Tim. 2:11-12 should not be applicable in the modern church because of culture. That's about tantamount to saying that the Bible is not the complete and ever steadfast Word of God. Only two things can be true, firehill: Either the Bible is the complete Word of God or it is not. If it is the complete Word of God, then it is just as applicable in today's church as it ever was. If it's not the Word of God, for any reason, then we are free to follow whatever teaching of man that tickles our ears.

Point blank: I've not stopped gathering the facts. While it is true that all women shouldn't get married according to divine appointment (see Jesus teachings and paul's on the matter) it is also true that Paul was addressing a particular people, culture, etc etc. While I continue to gather the 100% FACTS some continue to disregard them, just because.

Paul was addressing a particular people, culture, etc., Peter was addressing a particular people, culture, etc., James, John, and Matthew were addressing a particular people, culture, etc.; So were Moses, David, Solomon, and all of the other authors of the Bible. Yet were they not also speaking to us? If not, then we don't need the Bible!

That would be my question as well. All literature including scripture is written in a certain culture and for a certain culture. Are you saying that the bible is only pertinent for the original audience to whom it was written?

[firehill]

Either the Bible is the complete Word of God or it is not. If it is the complete Word of God, then it is just as applicable in today's church as it ever was. If it's not the Word of God, for any reason, then we are free to follow whatever teaching of man that tickles our ears.

The OT laws regarding slaves are not even applicable. Man's teaching is what causes all the divisions and lack of understand the author's intent.

The laws regarding slaves are applicable in any society where slavery is still legal. If a man owns slaves legally, he should give heed to the things written about the practice in the Bible.

Jesus said that all the Law is summed up in the 2 Greatest commandments.

Indeed, mast forms of slavery do not even adhere to 'love thy neighbor as thyself.'

[firehill]

Hum,

So we should rule out that some Bible passageses were meant for another culture besides ours. Ok then I'll bring the incense, if firehill will bring the Bull.

[spiritman]

Hum,

So we should rule out that some Bible passageses were meant for another culture besides ours. Ok then I'll bring the incense, if firehill will bring the Bull.

That is not a cultural matter. The sacrifices had to continue till Jesus went to the cross. We no longer need the Levical Priests because Christ is our high priest. On the other hand, the issues we are discussing have to do with New Testament doctrine. That is another matter altogether. As I stated, if you do away with one qualification for the office of deacon and bishop, why stop there? Just say there are no qualifications. Then we won't be descriminating against alcoholics who seek the office. In that day, drunkenness was sinful, but today it is a disease. Since we have become enlightened, why not change that as well?

Since you brought this back up Firehill, this is my reply.

Sorry Brother Butero,

I guess it was the laughing emotion con at the end of my statment that made me look serious about this matter. It's really not fair you know, brother Joe gets buy with this all the time, Oh well, guess I'm considered to serious a person to joke once in a while.

Ok, from now on I'll be a stuff shirt.

[mrs]

You guys are taking this thread way off topic. And getting lost in arguments to prove points, when they arent really plausible arguments at all.

To whoever made the post listing the qualifications to be an elder or deacon..you made a lot of good points.

Someone would really have to turn a blind eye to a lot of obvious Scripture, to say that a woman could preach.

And I agree also, that when people argue women can preach, they are arguing against the inerrancy and authority of Scripture itself.

[Fiosh]

it's ok. Um ovedya I remember you said that based on what I was saying the Bible is not necessary, but I didn't mean that. The Bible is a framework for which all beliefs, and all spiritual things claiming goodness should fit into. It should never be ousted, never be misused, and never ever be denied it's holiness. However, as I was saying about the whole women thing that was cultural. Part of taking the Bible in context is to look at the culture. For instance, old jewish law like in Leviticus, were laws meant for the Israelites at that time. they are useful for our understanding of the culture of the Jewish people, and also to help understand the purpose of the Bible which is a story of God's love. When you look at the culture of the time in the Bible you realize all the symbolism that is in the Bible that we don't normally see because we have a different culture.

I understand what you are saying. Howver, simply saying that we should ignore or discard something in the Bible because it is no longer relevant is ignoring or discarding that the bible is the complete, true, and ever steadfast Word of God.

The problems I have with this statement is that no one is 'simply ignoring neither discarding' anything in the Bible and neither for the reason that 'it(?)' is no longer relevant. It's just that your summation, Ovedya, of such an opposing position is just your opinion expressed in your own words. It's accusing one of something that simply isn't true since if it were then you could prove it.

May I remind you of a statement you made in the "Should Women Remain Silent" thread?

Context, context, context. Historical, cultural, literary.

Simply, women should be silent as much as they all should be married.

Paul was actualy quoting his opponents!

In other posts you essentially argued that verses like 1 Cor. 14:34 and 1 Tim. 2:11-12 should not be applicable in the modern church because of culture. That's about tantamount to saying that the Bible is not the complete and ever steadfast Word of God. Only two things can be true, firehill: Either the Bible is the complete Word of God or it is not. If it is the complete Word of God, then it is just as applicable in today's church as it ever was. If it's not the Word of God, for any reason, then we are free to follow whatever teaching of man that tickles our ears.

One must ask oneself, "why did the Holy Spirit include those passages in the New Testament if they were not meant for future generations as well as the present culture?" Paul could have very easily preached those words to the Corinthian church, and shared them with Timothy, without writing them in his epistles to be included in the canon of Scripture.

It's there. So we should be mindful of the guiding hand of the Holy Spirit in all Scripture.

It IS meant for us.

Peace,

Fiosh

[Floatingaxe]

You guys are taking this thread way off topic. And getting lost in arguments to prove points, when they arent really plausible arguments at all.

To whoever made the post listing the qualifications to be an elder or deacon..you made a lot of good points.

Someone would really have to turn a blind eye to a lot of obvious Scripture, to say that a woman could preach.

And I agree also, that when people argue women can preach, they are arguing against the inerrancy and authority of Scripture itself.

Once again, I say, Jesus has commanded that we all preach the gospel. that supersedes any doctrine anyone can devise. Period.

Mark 16:15

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Matthew 28:19

Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Disciples are us! Disciples preach and teach. Male and female teach ye them!

[Giaour]

Mark 16:15

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Yes, Go ye into the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

This is a command to be missionaries.

This verse doesnt say to stay put in a church pulpit and make everyone come to hear you.

This verse tells us to go to the people.

[Floatingaxe]

Mark 16:15

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Yes, Go ye into the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

This is a command to be missionaries.

This verse doesnt say to stay put in a church pulpit and make everyone come to hear you.

This verse tells us to go to the people.

Exactly! We are called to be missionaries with our lives, preaching and teaching. When one is asked to teach a group, we need to be able enough by the Holy Spirit and willing enough by an obedient spirit, to do so, with joy.