A hypotethical situation

[HAZARD]

Phil 2:12 wrote;

"What would be the outcome of these two separate teaching styles, one from the left bank missionary and one from the right bank missionary on this tribe that is common to both banks of the river? Remember, both missionaries were guided solely by the Holy Spirit and had only the Word of God to teach from and both are totally lacking in any of the doctrines and traditions of any denomination."

.

If the missionaries were truly guided by the Holy Spirit alone, and only the Word preached, totally lacking in any traditions of any denomination, {the members of the tribes}, having accepted what was being taught. Those who accepted and believed what they were being taught would be true born again Christians.

[RCruise]

Did I even attempt to lean that way??? I was asking you to clarify what you were saying. You did not seem to understand what I was asking in relation to your earlier post so I narrowed it down to that specific quote and then simply put forth what I understood you to be saying and even asked you if that was correct! So, take it easy Shilo. Not a problem. There was never even a hint of KJV only debate and I did not even bring up the KJV in my posts except for your list quoted from you. sheesh. I asked you originally if your stance was that ALL the versions or translations were tainted with man's theological stances.

If you cannot defend your position without getting riled and defensive and throwing false accusations at me, I guess that pretty much sums it up and answers all my questions.

I did not throw false accusations at you so you can relax.

You opened up with in your last repsonse to about translations and whether or not we have one that is untainted by human theological leanings. That line of questioning around here is usually how the KJV only folks lead into their attack. It is simply hinted that you might be headed that way I did not accuse you of anything, but I simply headed off what I saw as a KJV translation debate, at the pass. We have only had about a million people jump on our boards and argue that the KJV is a pure translation and untainted and is the only "Word of God in English. So, your question raised a suspicion that was not at all unfounded from where I sit.

As to your question again, I already said that the human element cannot be factored out of anything we do for the Lord. God's message is pure, and without flaw, but our understanding is flawed, and as such God has managed to perserve the truth put forth in the Word through imperfect vessels. We are incapable of producing an English translation that is completely flawless, but God has amazingly been able to preserve the integrity and force of the doctrines and teachings He inspired to be present in the Scriptures.

Fair enough! Was that so hard?

For the record, I have been a member since 2003, was absent for a little less than 2 years. And I am a KJV person but don't argue or debate over it. I believe however that what you put forth in your original post about factoring these flaws in, is not the way to All Truth in Christ. James said it best:

James 1:5-8 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

I do believe the KJV is pure and true to every exact detail and meaning of the Received Text and that greater scholars and linguists than ourselves have proven that. But, that is my personal conviction and wisdom from The Lord. I used the NIV and other versions in times past but found the conflicts. It was when I saw this verse in James that I realized God WILL answer if asked in exact accordance of Faith as James has put forth. And not just about "versions/translations" which are nominal in importance but on every level and detail about Himself and our directions in His Will and Ways. But in agreement with you about debates and arguments I do agree and say they are unprofitable and lead to more damage and no good thing.

I guess shiloh had you pegged correctly as a KJV-Only-er It'll be hard for this not to turn into one of those debates in light of the comments you made above. But if you want to advocate that the KJV is inerrant, that should probably be left for another thread.

LOL! No....not so kabowd. As I said, I don't debate it or debase others for what version they use. I was simply being honest that I do espouse the King James personally. Now, if honesty is a crime, I'm guilty. My original posting to shiloh was one of asking him/her for clarity on a broad statement that none of the English versions we have are untainted by man's theologies. I never once and still have not got into a version questioning issue and won't.

[RCruise]

Did I even attempt to lean that way??? I was asking you to clarify what you were saying. You did not seem to understand what I was asking in relation to your earlier post so I narrowed it down to that specific quote and then simply put forth what I understood you to be saying and even asked you if that was correct! So, take it easy Shilo. Not a problem. There was never even a hint of KJV only debate and I did not even bring up the KJV in my posts except for your list quoted from you. sheesh. I asked you originally if your stance was that ALL the versions or translations were tainted with man's theological stances.

If you cannot defend your position without getting riled and defensive and throwing false accusations at me, I guess that pretty much sums it up and answers all my questions.

I did not throw false accusations at you so you can relax.

You opened up with in your last repsonse to about translations and whether or not we have one that is untainted by human theological leanings. That line of questioning around here is usually how the KJV only folks lead into their attack. It is simply hinted that you might be headed that way I did not accuse you of anything, but I simply headed off what I saw as a KJV translation debate, at the pass. We have only had about a million people jump on our boards and argue that the KJV is a pure translation and untainted and is the only "Word of God in English. So, your question raised a suspicion that was not at all unfounded from where I sit.

As to your question again, I already said that the human element cannot be factored out of anything we do for the Lord. God's message is pure, and without flaw, but our understanding is flawed, and as such God has managed to perserve the truth put forth in the Word through imperfect vessels. We are incapable of producing an English translation that is completely flawless, but God has amazingly been able to preserve the integrity and force of the doctrines and teachings He inspired to be present in the Scriptures.

Fair enough! Was that so hard?

For the record, I have been a member since 2003, was absent for a little less than 2 years. And I am a KJV person but don't argue or debate over it. I believe however that what you put forth in your original post about factoring these flaws in, is not the way to All Truth in Christ. James said it best:

James 1:5-8 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

I do believe the KJV is pure and true to every exact detail and meaning of the Received Text and that greater scholars and linguists than ourselves have proven that. But, that is my personal conviction and wisdom from The Lord. I used the NIV and other versions in times past but found the conflicts. It was when I saw this verse in James that I realized God WILL answer if asked in exact accordance of Faith as James has put forth. And not just about "versions/translations" which are nominal in importance but on every level and detail about Himself and our directions in His Will and Ways. But in agreement with you about debates and arguments I do agree and say they are unprofitable and lead to more damage and no good thing.

Yes, so my suspicion which you tried to pretend was out in left field was not so far off after all...

So was it just what I said about the translations that you had a problem with? I was addressing comments made by the person who opened up the thread with a scenario based more on the ideal, than the real world. Was there something else in my response that troubled you?

OK Shilo, I will stop asking you anything, alright? Because you are totally out there in left field. I never questioned or even mentioned versions/translations issues but simply asked you to clarify your statement that we really do not have an English version that is not corrupted by man's theologies. Go back and read every post. But, this is the last one I will post to you on the subject for you are going off the deep end with paranoia again accusing me of something totally false. And I don't want to hijack the thread, was never my intention.

Blessings in Jesus

Ron

[Guest shiloh357]

Did I even attempt to lean that way??? I was asking you to clarify what you were saying. You did not seem to understand what I was asking in relation to your earlier post so I narrowed it down to that specific quote and then simply put forth what I understood you to be saying and even asked you if that was correct! So, take it easy Shilo. Not a problem. There was never even a hint of KJV only debate and I did not even bring up the KJV in my posts except for your list quoted from you. sheesh. I asked you originally if your stance was that ALL the versions or translations were tainted with man's theological stances.

If you cannot defend your position without getting riled and defensive and throwing false accusations at me, I guess that pretty much sums it up and answers all my questions.

I did not throw false accusations at you so you can relax.

You opened up with in your last repsonse to about translations and whether or not we have one that is untainted by human theological leanings. That line of questioning around here is usually how the KJV only folks lead into their attack. It is simply hinted that you might be headed that way I did not accuse you of anything, but I simply headed off what I saw as a KJV translation debate, at the pass. We have only had about a million people jump on our boards and argue that the KJV is a pure translation and untainted and is the only "Word of God in English. So, your question raised a suspicion that was not at all unfounded from where I sit.

As to your question again, I already said that the human element cannot be factored out of anything we do for the Lord. God's message is pure, and without flaw, but our understanding is flawed, and as such God has managed to perserve the truth put forth in the Word through imperfect vessels. We are incapable of producing an English translation that is completely flawless, but God has amazingly been able to preserve the integrity and force of the doctrines and teachings He inspired to be present in the Scriptures.

Fair enough! Was that so hard?

For the record, I have been a member since 2003, was absent for a little less than 2 years. And I am a KJV person but don't argue or debate over it. I believe however that what you put forth in your original post about factoring these flaws in, is not the way to All Truth in Christ. James said it best:

James 1:5-8 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

I do believe the KJV is pure and true to every exact detail and meaning of the Received Text and that greater scholars and linguists than ourselves have proven that. But, that is my personal conviction and wisdom from The Lord. I used the NIV and other versions in times past but found the conflicts. It was when I saw this verse in James that I realized God WILL answer if asked in exact accordance of Faith as James has put forth. And not just about "versions/translations" which are nominal in importance but on every level and detail about Himself and our directions in His Will and Ways. But in agreement with you about debates and arguments I do agree and say they are unprofitable and lead to more damage and no good thing.

Yes, so my suspicion which you tried to pretend was out in left field was not so far off after all...

So was it just what I said about the translations that you had a problem with? I was addressing comments made by the person who opened up the thread with a scenario based more on the ideal, than the real world. Was there something else in my response that troubled you?

OK Shilo, I will stop asking you anything, alright? Because you are totally out there in left field. I never questioned or even mentioned versions/translations issues but simply asked you to clarify your statement that we really do not have an English version that is not corrupted by man's theologies. Go back and read every post. But, this is the last one I will post to you on the subject for you are going off the deep end with paranoia again accusing me of something totally false. And I don't want to hijack the thread, was never my intention.

Blessings in Jesus

Ron

Oh please... you need to get over yourself. I never accused you anything false. You are a KJV person, like I suspected. That is all I have said. I have made NO accusations against you and I defy you to show that I have. Like I said, you homed in on what I said about translations, and even though I posted on whole host of other subjects on my initial post. You did not like the post, but you only chose to question me on one point that I made. I answered your question, now more than once, but all you can do is call me paranoid. The fact that you keep imagining some silly "accusation" would speak to you being more paranoid one.

The fact is that I could tell you were a KJV person from your first question. You tried to pretend that was not the issue, and the only way around my response is to now to accuse me of paranoia. Kind of a cheap shot, really. If you can't respond with anything more intelligent than that, the by all mean don't bother. It would be a waste of my time and this board's bandwidth.

[Guest]

If the missionaries were truly guided by the Holy Spirit alone, and only the Word preached, totally lacking in any traditions of any denomination, {the members of the tribes}, having accepted what was being taught. Those who accepted and believed what they were being taught would be true born again Christians.

Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

Amen! Amen! Amen!

The Message

"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." (1 Corinthians 2:2)

The Message

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)

The Messenger

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:" (Ephesians 6:17)

The Father

"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine." (John 17:9)

The Son

"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." (Acts 2:39)

The Holy Ghost

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." (Romans 8:14)

Who can stand against our God

Words & Music: Mar

[HAZARD]

If the missionaries were truly guided by the Holy Spirit alone, and only the Word preached, totally lacking in any traditions of any denomination, {the members of the tribes}, having accepted what was being taught. Those who accepted and believed what they were being taught would be true born again Christians.

Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

Amen! Amen! Amen!

The Message

"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." (1 Corinthians 2:2)

The Message

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)

The Messenger

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:" (Ephesians 6:17)

The Father

"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine." (John 17:9)

The Son

"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." (Acts 2:39)

The Holy Ghost

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." (Romans 8:14)

Who can stand against our God

Words & Music: Mar

[eric]

Well as far as the OP is concerned, all it has done is caused some unfriendly communication between members of Worthy and as we live in a reaL world and not hypothetical one. the answer is a hypthetic no-contest and should have been posted in one of the non-doctrinal forums such as fellowship hall

JMHO.

Edited March 24, 2007 by eric

[Phil.2:12]

Well as far as the OP is concerned, all it has done is caused some unfriendly communication between members of Worthy and as we live in a reaL world and not hypothetical one. the answer is a hypthetic no-contest and should have been posted in one of the non-doctrinal forums such as fellowship hall

JMHO.

On the contrary, Eric, this thread has done exactly what I was trying to illustrate in other threads, namely that it is people, not the Holy Spirit, that fractionalizes opposing views. The Holy Spirit will never lead to the divisiveness we have seen within the bretheren within this post. To take a hypothetical post, devoid of any religious trappings, and derive some of the posts that we have been treated to in this thread is a perfect example of how Satan comes in and immediately tries to twist around what God has said. The devil uses Christians who don't even know they are being used of the devil to accomplish his nefarious plans and get the brothers and sisters in Christ arguing over points that have no relevance whatsoever to the original message. Such is the stuff that demoninations are made of.

And Eric, lest we forget, this wasn't really a hypothetical situation, but the situation that the original Apostles faced every day. I presented it as an hypothetical situation so that no dogmas or traditions would be assumed to exist. This whole exercise has been an eye-opener into how the devil plays and preys on Christians, making them do and say things that God would never have them do or say. Guess we're not as immune to the old devil as we might think we are, huh?

[Scarletprayers]

Well as far as the OP is concerned, all it has done is caused some unfriendly communication between members of Worthy and as we live in a reaL world and not hypothetical one. the answer is a hypthetic no-contest and should have been posted in one of the non-doctrinal forums such as fellowship hall

JMHO.

Ditto!

[Fiosh]

Well as far as the OP is concerned, all it has done is caused some unfriendly communication between members of Worthy and as we live in a reaL world and not hypothetical one. the answer is a hypthetic no-contest and should have been posted in one of the non-doctrinal forums such as fellowship hall

JMHO.

On the contrary, Eric, this thread has done exactly what I was trying to illustrate in other threads, namely that it is people, not the Holy Spirit, that fractionalizes opposing views. The Holy Spirit will never lead to the divisiveness we have seen within the bretheren within this post. To take a hypothetical post, devoid of any religious trappings, and derive some of the posts that we have been treated to in this thread is a perfect example of how Satan comes in and immediately tries to twist around what God has said. The devil uses Christians who don't even know they are being used of the devil to accomplish his nefarious plans and get the brothers and sisters in Christ arguing over points that have no relevance whatsoever to the original message. Such is the stuff that demoninations are made of.

Now that actually made me laugh out loud.

OF COURSE ITS PEOPLE THAT FRACTIONALIZE THE CHURCH!

NO ONE EVER SAID IT WAS THE HOLY SPIRIT.

I mean, c'mon, phil, that's a ludicrous accusation.

Every poster was pointing out to you how man screws things up even though the Holy Spirit remains true.

If anyone did not seem to understand that, it was YOU.

Glad to see you finally figured it out.