When you are born again

[jesusiskingofkings]

Does a born-again believer in Jesus (many Christians are not born-again) retain his original sin nature (just a sinner saved by grace) or does he acquire the sinless nature of God, such as Adam had when he was created. What is your position and why do you believe in it.

I haven't read any of the other posts yet, but I think we are sinners that are saved by grace and retain the sin nature in the flesh. I believe because Paul himself had addressed this in Rommans, he spoke how we have a war within ourselves, the flesh man is in war with the spirit man that we have now become. I think this is why we have daliy fellowship with our Lord Jesus christ, in prayer and bible study.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do, I know not. For what I desire, that I do not do; but what I hate, that I do.

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I do not desire, I consent to the law that it is good.

Rom 7:17 But now it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing. For to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I do not find.

Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good that I desire; but the evil which I do not will, that I do.

Rom 7:20 But if I do what I do not desire, it is no more I working it out, but sin dwelling in me.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law: when I will to do the right, evil is present with me.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the Law of God according to the inward man;

Rom 7:23 but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin being in my members.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

If Paul himself said he wars with this what makes us any different? Also in Hebrews it says we have an high priest(Jesus) in heaven at the right hand of the father should we mess up and give into that sinful nature. Are we to purposely do things that are flesh related? No, we are to try our best, but the law can no longer hold us guilty if we stumble, because we now can take all our offences, and slip ups, and cover them under the presceous blood of Jesus.

The differance is now the spirit man is awake with in us, showing us the error of flesh man, this is why the christian has a change. The guilt the spirit man puts on the flesh man, now guides us to an inner, the man that is gong to win is the man we feed.

We decide what man we feed by the things we watch, read hear and do. If we want a stronger spirit man, than that is the one we cater to. I am guilty of feeding the flesh man from time to time. Thst is why we are indepted to Jesus, by taking up our cross daily. What we had trouble laying down yeaterday a hold in the flesh, we have a new chance daily of over coming our bad habbits, that we might nail them once and for all to the cross.

Much love in Christ Jesus,

Sister Bridget

[Guest Greg Davies]

Hello everyone,

I've posted my views on this topic already, but I want to address this Romans 7 conundrum. There are many sincere Christians who, unfortunately, feel doomed to a life of sinning because of what Paul is describing in this chapter.

More than ever, we need to read Romans 7 in context of chatpers 5-8. At the end of chapter 5, Paul says that sin reigns unto death so that grace might reign in Christ. Then in Chapter 6, he poses the question: should we continue in sin? His reply, "God forbid!".

Because of the "born again" experience, we are new creations and are expected to "walk in the newness of life" (verse 4) and that "sin shall not have dominion over" us (verse 14). In verse 12 we are commanded not to let sin reign over us. This whole chapter declares that we can have victory over sin because the "old man" is dead. In Col. 2:11, the "old man" is refered to as the "body of the sins of the flesh" and it has been "put off"!

Chapter 7 is a rhetorical dissertation of the state of a man who is under the law and has yet to be set free by the "born again" experience. Paul speaks in the first person as an illustration, not as a description of his "born again" condition.

He concludes chapter 7 asking the question, "who will deliver him?" He answers his own rhetorical question, "Jesus Christ our Lord". Chapter 8 is a glorious promise to those who will walk in the Spirit. They will overcome. We still have a choice whether to walk in the Spirit or the flesh. Paul is telling us here that we can walk in the Spirit because we are "born again".

Because we are born of the Spirit, we have a new spirit, not the sin spirit we inherited from Adam. Because we have been born of the water (water baptism), the "old man" is buried, the "stony heart" has been replaced with a new circumcised heart (Ez 36:26 and Col 2:11-13) and we can walk in the newness of life, overcoming sin. Praise God!

David's cry in Psalm 51 (see verse 10) has been answered if we will just believe.

Greg.

[Pilgrim7]

Greg,

Great post. There are so few who understand that the Romans 7 is the man in the flesh, unconverted, it was Paul as a Pharasee, a religious man, but not a Spiritual man. The sin nature is still there in the Spiritual man, but not in control. The Spirit is stronger than the flesh. Romans 7 is a description of Paul when he was in the flesh before before his conversion.

Romans 7:5 sets the context for the rest of the Chapter:

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh (past tense), the motions of sins, which were (identified and condemned) by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Romans 8 was Pauls experience after conversion:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation (from the Law) to those which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but (walk) after the Spirit.

Thus being in Christ Jesus is not walking after the flesh in breaking God's law, but walking in obedience to it through the Spirit, thus fulfilling the righteousness of the Law which is what Paul did.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit (mind) the things of the Spirit.

8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity (hatred) against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God (for they won't keep the righteousness of His law).

8:9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Here is Pauls testimony on the matter:

Acts 25:7 And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove.

25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.

We can have the same testimony if we believe as Paul did. The Spirit of Holiness dwelt in him by faith to keep him from falling and we have access to the same Spirit through faith.

God Bless,

Dennis

[Franklin Lee]

I think we have a familiarity with the sin nature that keeps us acquainted with the feeling of being able to sin... However I think the sin nature has in many senses been crucified or died with Christ, and we have the nature of the Holy Spirit residing in us now