Spiritual Language (Tongues)

[Ovedya]

Acts 19...

1 While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions until he reached Ephesus, on the coast, where he found several believers. 2 "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them.

"No," they replied, "we haven

[Floatingaxe]

These men were described as BELIEVERS! Not of John, which John would abhor, for He pointed to Christ only.

Of course they knew Jesus, or they wouldn't have been called believers! You are reading into the passage far more than is there. They admit to not having heard about the Holy Spirit!

Study, Ovedya, study.

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

The word does not say these are born-again believers in Jesus.

In fact, it says they were believers in John and baptized in HIM, not Jesus. Paul had to teach them to believe truly meant to believe in Jesus and baptized in Him, not John.

4 Paul said, "John

[Floatingaxe]

They were believers in Jesus, as John would have taught them, but they were re-baptized in Jesus' Christ, when they realized that it was necessary.

Then after, they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

[Ovedya]

These men were described as BELIEVERS! Not of John, which John would abhor, for He pointed to Christ only.

Of course they knew Jesus, or they wouldn't have been called believers! You are reading into the passage far more than is there. They admit to not having heard about the Holy Spirit!

Study, Ovedya, study.

You say that I am reading more into the passage more than is there. Yet your citation of the does not contain the words "Jesus Christ" at the end of verse 1. You are thus assuming that these are believers of Jesus Christ. Clearly John did not "abhor" having his own disciples to serve him and to contend with the Lord Jesus Himself, even as the Pharisees did.

The proper translation anyway is not "believer" but "disciple." Disciple is "Mathetes" in Greek and to believe is "Pisteuo."

[Yahsway]

FA, the passage in Acts 19:1 in the KJV and the NKJV refers to these at Ephesus as "disciples" NOT believers in Jesus. You can be a disciple of any teacher.

The word disciples means "taught ones"

These men recieved Johns baptisim as they were "taught" only about that from Apollos.

Remember that John said he baptized with water, but there was one coming that would baptize them with the Holy Spirit and with fire. Apollos did not teach his disciples this, thats why he had to be corrected.

If these taught ones (disciples) in Ephesus were already "believers" in Jesus, there would have been no need to baptise them in water in the Name of the Lord Jesus.

Paul finding some "disciples" in Ephesus simply means he found some "taught ones" Of course Paul tells those at Ephesus in verse 4 that John indeed baptized with the baptisim of repentance and then Paul goes onto to teach them about the one who came after John, namely Jesus.

[matthew4:4]

FA, the passage in Acts 19:1 in the KJV and the NKJV refers to these at Ephesus as "disciples" NOT believers in Jesus. You can be a disciple of any teacher.

The word disciples means "taught ones"

These men recieved Johns baptisim as they were "taught" only about that from Apollos.

Remember that John said he baptized with water, but there was one coming that would baptize them with the Holy Spirit and with fire. Apollos did not teach his disciples this, thats why he had to be corrected.

If these taught ones (disciples) in Ephesus were already "believers" in Jesus, there would have been no need to baptise them in water in the Name of the Lord Jesus.

Paul finding some "disciples" in Ephesus simply means he found some "taught ones" Of course Paul tells those at Ephesus in verse 4 that John indeed baptized with the baptisim of repentance and then Paul goes onto to teach them about the one who came after John, namely Jesus.

I would say through the evidence you guys have provided we can safely say that those men were not believers in Christ. So then if the Holy Spirit is departed upon us instantaneously at our rebirth then we could say due to how it happened in acts that everyone would have a similiar experience right away? Meaning all would come to prophecy or speak in tongues right away? In every example in Acts does it not show that all spoke in tongues or prophesied or used whatever gift they were given right away? There are no examples where there was like a delayed baptism of the spirit. Tell me what you guys think. Thanks. Your brother in Christ, matthew

[Floatingaxe]

These men were described as BELIEVERS! Not of John, which John would abhor, for He pointed to Christ only.

Of course they knew Jesus, or they wouldn't have been called believers! You are reading into the passage far more than is there. They admit to not having heard about the Holy Spirit!

Study, Ovedya, study.

You say that I am reading more into the passage more than is there. Yet your citation of the does not contain the words "Jesus Christ" at the end of verse 1. You are thus assuming that these are believers of Jesus Christ. Clearly John did not "abhor" having his own disciples to serve him and to contend with the Lord Jesus Himself, even as the Pharisees did.

The proper translation anyway is not "believer" but "disciple." Disciple is "Mathetes" in Greek and to believe is "Pisteuo."

I don't think Paul would have designated them as believers if they weren't! I trust Him over anyone's interpretation.

Sheeesh...

[Floatingaxe]

FA, the passage in Acts 19:1 in the KJV and the NKJV refers to these at Ephesus as "disciples" NOT believers in Jesus. You can be a disciple of any teacher.

The word disciples means "taught ones"

These men recieved Johns baptisim as they were "taught" only about that from Apollos.

Remember that John said he baptized with water, but there was one coming that would baptize them with the Holy Spirit and with fire. Apollos did not teach his disciples this, thats why he had to be corrected.

If these taught ones (disciples) in Ephesus were already "believers" in Jesus, there would have been no need to baptise them in water in the Name of the Lord Jesus.

Paul finding some "disciples" in Ephesus simply means he found some "taught ones" Of course Paul tells those at Ephesus in verse 4 that John indeed baptized with the baptisim of repentance and then Paul goes onto to teach them about the one who came after John, namely Jesus.

I would say through the evidence you guys have provided we can safely say that those men were not believers in Christ. So then if the Holy Spirit is departed upon us instantaneously at our rebirth then we could say due to how it happened in acts that everyone would have a similiar experience right away? Meaning all would come to prophecy or speak in tongues right away? In every example in Acts does it not show that all spoke in tongues or prophesied or used whatever gift they were given right away? There are no examples where there was like a delayed baptism of the spirit. Tell me what you guys think. Thanks. Your brother in Christ, matthew

While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions until he reached Ephesus, on the coast, where he found several believers. 2 "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them.

[Floatingaxe]

Amen, EG!!