Spiritual Language (Tongues)

[Yahsway]

okay, one more time.

The scriptures say-

And it happened while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul having passed thru the upper regions came to Ephesus.

And finding some DISCIPLES (taught ones) NOT BELIEVERS IN JESUS. They were taught about repentance and about the Kingdom of God being at hand and were baptized into Johns Baptisim.

And how do we KNOW that they were NOT BELIEVERS in Jesus?

Because Paul QUESTIONED them THINKING that they were Believers in Jesus. His question was this

"Did you recieve the Holy Spirit when you BELIEVED?" (Meaning Believed in Jesus)

And their answer was "We have not so much as heard whether there is a" Holy Spirit"

So Paul hearing this QUESTIONS them again asking "So Into WHAT then were you Baptized?" In other words, into what is it that you BELIEVE?

and their answer was "Into Johns baptism" And what was Johns Baptism?

Paul tells them that "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying that to the people that they should BELIEVE on HIM (JESUS) who would come AFTER him, that is BELIEVE ON CHRIST JESUS

So what happened next?

it says that "When they (the disciples of John) HEARD THIS, (HEARD WHAT? Answer-That they should Believe on Him/Jesus) THEN they were Baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus.

They had NOT been Baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus prior to this period. They had been baptized into Johns baptism.

There is a difference.

Now I have been told by some Beleivers that the GIFT of speaking in Tongues is evidence of their Salvation and/or the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit. Not true, unless you are an interpretor of Tongues and know for sure what is being spoken. Many Buddist have whats called being "slain in the spirit" and they also speak in Tongues. There is a counterfit ya know. And yes, even in the different assemblies there are babblings going on that are Not of God.

God gave the Church His Holy Spirit. We are not left orphans. There are Spiritual Gifts, and not every believer gets the same gifts. This is where we have unity in Diversity.

As the scriptures say There are diversities of gifts BUT the same Spirit.

How do we know a true born-again believer? What is the "evidence" if you will? Its not the Tongue speaking experience I assure you.

Hint: 1 Corinthians 13

Shalom

[Vickilynn]

Hi again,

Nope, can't sleep yet! lol

Shalom EphesiansGal,

Sorry! I hope you can get some sleep after this post.

These two things don't agree and you said them both:

"That's how it worked for you, but it not the ONLY way, that's my point."

and:

"I believe the Scriptures are clear that the Holy Spirit indwells us, fills us and baptizes us when we are born-again. "

Yes, they do agree. That's why I said 'em!

LOL by my showing that I was baptised in the Holy Spirit after I was born again, I am showing that the second statement you made above is not right.

Actually, it IS right, but it's not the only right way, which is why I said what I said. IOW, this is my belief and this is my experience, but I understand others have different views and experiences. Now, do you see that both my statements DO agree, even if you and I don't?

Are we getting there?

YES! We're THERE! We both love Jesus. We both are born-again and baptized in the Holy Spirit. We both speak in tongues.

And (hopefully) we both agree to disagree on the RIGHT way to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. However He wants to do it is fine with me!

I really think we focus TOO much on the HOW and not enough on the WHO (Holy Spirit) and what HE does in our lives. I don't care to argue about how, it's not important. The important issue is that we are open to the Holy Spirit and allow Him to fill us to overflowing so that we can serve Jesus more effectively.

Does that help?

[Ovedya]

While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions until he reached Ephesus, on the coast, where he found several believers. 2 "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them.

It's really just a poor translation, sis. The word should be "disciples," as I pointed out on the last page.

And for the record I'm not intentionally trying to be difficult or to start a spat. I just don't think that these verses portray an example of believers having received separate experiences at different times.

[Floatingaxe]

While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions until he reached Ephesus, on the coast, where he found several believers. 2 "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them.

It's really just a poor translation, sis. The word should be "disciples," as I pointed out on the last page.

And for the record I'm not intentionally trying to be difficult or to start a spat. I just don't think that these verses portray an example of believers having received separate experiences at different times.

I do believe that these verses say exactly what they say. They were believers that they encountered in Ephesus. Disciples also means believers. "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" is a reference to their having already come to a BELIEF in Jesus Christ.

Then they conformed to the requirement to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

[Floatingaxe]

While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions until he reached Ephesus, on the coast, where he found several believers. 2 "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them.

It's really just a poor translation, sis. The word should be "disciples," as I pointed out on the last page.

And for the record I'm not intentionally trying to be difficult or to start a spat. I just don't think that these verses portray an example of believers having received separate experiences at different times.

I do believe that these verses say exactly what they say. They were believers that they encountered in Ephesus. Disciples also means believers. "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" is a reference to their having already come to a BELIEF in Jesus Christ.

Then they conformed to the requirement to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Ovedya is right, FA. A disciple does not mean a believer. A disciple is still a student being taught and is still continuing to learn. And that is why Paul questioned them. Even Jesus' original twelve disciples did not fully understand and believe who he was until after His Resurrection because they did not completely understand. Facts are Facts.

G3101

μαθητής

mathētēs

math-ay-tes'

From G3129; a learner, that is, pupil: - disciple.

In this case, it does mean believer. They were believers and disciples.

We are all believers, I hope, and disciples.

[Ovedya]

While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions until he reached Ephesus, on the coast, where he found several believers. 2 "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them.

It's really just a poor translation, sis. The word should be "disciples," as I pointed out on the last page.

And for the record I'm not intentionally trying to be difficult or to start a spat. I just don't think that these verses portray an example of believers having received separate experiences at different times.

I do believe that these verses say exactly what they say. They were believers that they encountered in Ephesus. Disciples also means believers. "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" is a reference to their having already come to a BELIEF in Jesus Christ.

Then they conformed to the requirement to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Ovedya is right, FA. A disciple does not mean a believer. A disciple is still a student being taught and is still continuing to learn. And that is why Paul questioned them. Even Jesus' original twelve disciples did not fully understand and believe who he was until after His Resurrection because they did not completely understand. Facts are Facts.

G3101

μαθητής

mathētēs

math-ay-tes'

From G3129; a learner, that is, pupil: - disciple.

In this case, it does mean believer. They were believers and disciples.

We are all believers, I hope, and disciples.

Can one be a follower of something, and be in agreement with a school of thought or a principal, and truly not be a believer in it? Absolutely. There are examples both inside of Christendom and outside. Not all disciples are true believers. Why do you think the Lord taught concerning the wheat and the tares?

You are holding to a translational misinterpretation here and not to the truth of the verses within their context.

In fact, I looked up the various translations on Blueletterbible.org and found that, of the translations listed there, only the New Living Translation translated the word as "believers" instead of "disciples." However, it also admits in the footnote that it should be "disciples"! http://www.worthychristianforums.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png' alt=':)'> As I am sure you are aware, there are many problems with the New Living Translation (A few of which are listed >>HERE<<).

[Floatingaxe]

While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions until he reached Ephesus, on the coast, where he found several believers. 2 "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them.

It's really just a poor translation, sis. The word should be "disciples," as I pointed out on the last page.

And for the record I'm not intentionally trying to be difficult or to start a spat. I just don't think that these verses portray an example of believers having received separate experiences at different times.

I do believe that these verses say exactly what they say. They were believers that they encountered in Ephesus. Disciples also means believers. "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" is a reference to their having already come to a BELIEF in Jesus Christ.

Then they conformed to the requirement to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Ovedya is right, FA. A disciple does not mean a believer. A disciple is still a student being taught and is still continuing to learn. And that is why Paul questioned them. Even Jesus' original twelve disciples did not fully understand and believe who he was until after His Resurrection because they did not completely understand. Facts are Facts.

G3101

μαθητής

mathētēs

math-ay-tes'

From G3129; a learner, that is, pupil: - disciple.

In this case, it does mean believer. They were believers and disciples.

We are all believers, I hope, and disciples.

Can one be a follower of something, and be in agreement with a school of thought or a principal, and truly not be a believer in it? Absolutely. There are examples both inside of Christendom and outside. Not all disciples are true believers. Why do you think the Lord taught concerning the wheat and the tares?

You are holding to a translational misinterpretation here and not to the truth of the verses within their context.

In fact, I looked up the various translations on Blueletterbible.org and found that, of the translations listed there, only the New Living Translation translated the word as "believers" instead of "disciples." However, it also admits in the footnote that it should be "disciples"! http://www.worthychristianforums.com/uploads/emoticons/default_thumbsup.gif' alt=':thumbsup:'> As I am sure you are aware, there are many problems with the New Living Translation (A few of which are listed >>HERE<<).

Ridiculous. Read the whole passage and get the gist. You are reading into the passage in a way I have never seen before!

[Ovedya]

Ridiculous. Read the whole passage and get the gist. You are reading into the passage in a way I have never seen before!

Then perhaps it would be wise to read other's commentaries on the matter to understand that mine is not a unique view:

From Crosswalk.com

Matthew Henry's Commentary: http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/Ma...apter=19#Ac19_1

John Darby's Synopsis: http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/Da...amp;chapter=19#

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

Just a thought here, if FA is making the WHOLE doctrine on this one verse, then how's about trying to find another verse to support it?

We cannot create doctrine on ONE verse. The Bible confirms itself. Let's see if there are other verses that can support it.

[LightofJesus]

okay, one more time.

The scriptures say-

And it happened while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul having passed thru the upper regions came to Ephesus.

And finding some DISCIPLES (taught ones) NOT BELIEVERS IN JESUS. They were taught about repentance and about the Kingdom of God being at hand and were baptized into Johns Baptisim.

And how do we KNOW that they were NOT BELIEVERS in Jesus?

Because Paul QUESTIONED them THINKING that they were Believers in Jesus. His question was this

"Did you recieve the Holy Spirit when you BELIEVED?" (Meaning Believed in Jesus)

And their answer was "We have not so much as heard whether there is a" Holy Spirit"

So Paul hearing this QUESTIONS them again asking "So Into WHAT then were you Baptized?" In other words, into what is it that you BELIEVE?

and their answer was "Into Johns baptism" And what was Johns Baptism?

Paul tells them that "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying that to the people that they should BELIEVE on HIM (JESUS) who would come AFTER him, that is BELIEVE ON CHRIST JESUS

So what happened next?

it says that "When they (the disciples of John) HEARD THIS, (HEARD WHAT? Answer-That they should Believe on Him/Jesus) THEN they were Baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus.

They had NOT been Baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus prior to this period. They had been baptized into Johns baptism.

There is a difference.

Now I have been told by some Beleivers that the GIFT of speaking in Tongues is evidence of their Salvation and/or the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit. Not true, unless you are an interpretor of Tongues and know for sure what is being spoken. Many Buddist have whats called being "slain in the spirit" and they also speak in Tongues. There is a counterfit ya know. And yes, even in the different assemblies there are babblings going on that are Not of God.

God gave the Church His Holy Spirit. We are not left orphans. There are Spiritual Gifts, and not every believer gets the same gifts. This is where we have unity in Diversity.

As the scriptures say There are diversities of gifts BUT the same Spirit.

How do we know a true born-again believer? What is the "evidence" if you will? Its not the Tongue speaking experience I assure you.

Hint: 1 Corinthians 13

Shalom

LOVE