Spiritual Language (Tongues)

[Floatingaxe]

Find me one post in this thread where I even mentioned a "second" baptism with the Holy Ghost.

Shalom E-gal.

Every ONE of your posts because you refuse to accept the Scriptural truth that we are filled with (baptized with) the Holy Spirit when we are born-again. You preach another baptism is necessary. You then negate what Jesus did on the Cross, and preach a false gospel that something else is needed to make us complete in Jesus. That's not Scripture and in fact, it is a false teaching.

We are instructed to rebuke and ignore false teachers who preach anything other than being born-again and complete in Jesus by His work on the Cross.

You can rebuke and rebuke, but you are amiss...My Saviour, Jesus, has saved me and then He has filled me with His Holy Spirit, empowering me with His gifts to fulfill the work He has given me to do. As I need further empowerment, He will supply my need.

I know you are extremely confident is what you believe to be truth, but it is not. You are shortchanging the work of the Holy Spirit, and it must grieve Him.

[Ovedya]

Talk about legalism, either you agree with me, or your immature. Just as many if not more believers disagree with "2nd baptism" idea you are promoting here.

The immaturity is discovered in speech that expresses that one is FILLED at salvation. We are indwelt, but not FILLED. It is in the baptism of the Holy Spirit that we become immersed in Him and full to overflowing with His empowerment. It is then that true maturity in Christ can be acomplished.

Even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you." (john 14:17)

All believers are filled with the Spirit the moment they believe into the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. To be indwelt with the Spirit is to be filled with the Spirit. One cannot pour water in to a vessel and say that it has not been filled.

The Holy Spirit lives in the person who becomes saved, but it is a measure of His presence at that point. A believer needs to consecrate himself and receive the full measure! Filled! Overflowing!

Continue to be filled, not once, not twice, but ever and ever until you meet Him face to face!

"For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for He gives the Spirit not by measure." (John 3:34, emphasis added)

Nowhere do the Scriptures tell us that believers are only filled partially with the Spirit.

[Floatingaxe]

Talk about legalism, either you agree with me, or your immature. Just as many if not more believers disagree with "2nd baptism" idea you are promoting here.

The immaturity is discovered in speech that expresses that one is FILLED at salvation. We are indwelt, but not FILLED. It is in the baptism of the Holy Spirit that we become immersed in Him and full to overflowing with His empowerment. It is then that true maturity in Christ can be acomplished.

Even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you." (john 14:17)

All believers are filled with the Spirit the moment they believe into the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. To be indwelt with the Spirit is to be filled with the Spirit. One cannot pour water in to a vessel and say that it has not been filled.

The Holy Spirit lives in the person who becomes saved, but it is a measure of His presence at that point. A believer needs to consecrate himself and receive the full measure! Filled! Overflowing!

Continue to be filled, not once, not twice, but ever and ever until you meet Him face to face!

"For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for He gives the Spirit not by measure." (John 3:34, emphasis added)

Nowhere do the Scriptures tell us that believers are only filled partially with the Spirit.

Amen, by God, I have the full measure of the Holy Spirit through His baptism! And more and more is ther for me! And you...

[Ovedya]

Talk about legalism, either you agree with me, or your immature. Just as many if not more believers disagree with "2nd baptism" idea you are promoting here.

The immaturity is discovered in speech that expresses that one is FILLED at salvation. We are indwelt, but not FILLED. It is in the baptism of the Holy Spirit that we become immersed in Him and full to overflowing with His empowerment. It is then that true maturity in Christ can be acomplished.

Even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you." (john 14:17)

All believers are filled with the Spirit the moment they believe into the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. To be indwelt with the Spirit is to be filled with the Spirit. One cannot pour water in to a vessel and say that it has not been filled.

The Holy Spirit lives in the person who becomes saved, but it is a measure of His presence at that point. A believer needs to consecrate himself and receive the full measure! Filled! Overflowing!

Continue to be filled, not once, not twice, but ever and ever until you meet Him face to face!

"For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for He gives the Spirit not by measure." (John 3:34, emphasis added)

Nowhere do the Scriptures tell us that believers are only filled partially with the Spirit.

Amen, by God, I have the full measure of the Holy Spirit through His baptism!

Now you are adding to the Scriptures.

[Floatingaxe]

Talk about legalism, either you agree with me, or your immature. Just as many if not more believers disagree with "2nd baptism" idea you are promoting here.

The immaturity is discovered in speech that expresses that one is FILLED at salvation. We are indwelt, but not FILLED. It is in the baptism of the Holy Spirit that we become immersed in Him and full to overflowing with His empowerment. It is then that true maturity in Christ can be acomplished.

Even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you." (john 14:17)

All believers are filled with the Spirit the moment they believe into the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. To be indwelt with the Spirit is to be filled with the Spirit. One cannot pour water in to a vessel and say that it has not been filled.

The Holy Spirit lives in the person who becomes saved, but it is a measure of His presence at that point. A believer needs to consecrate himself and receive the full measure! Filled! Overflowing!

Continue to be filled, not once, not twice, but ever and ever until you meet Him face to face!

"For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for He gives the Spirit not by measure." (John 3:34, emphasis added)

Nowhere do the Scriptures tell us that believers are only filled partially with the Spirit.

Amen, by God, I have the full measure of the Holy Spirit through His baptism!

Now you are adding to the Scriptures.

Absolutely not. I am living by them.

[Vickilynn]

Now you are adding to the Scriptures.

Absolutely not. I am living by them.

Shalom,

How ridiculous.

Consider these words from the Word:

Titus 3

9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.

11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

[Guest Biblicist]

Is that so? If believers are filled at conversion, why would Paul admonish them in Ephesians 5 to be filled with the Holy Spirit? Did the Spirit leak away? How can you fill something that is already full?

18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

And why additionally would Jesus promise this?:

Luke 11

11 "Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

It's that little word "more". There ARE degrees. Only the prideful and deluded would think that we are ever in a place that we do not need more of the Holy Spirit. Let he who thinks he stands, take care lest he fall.

Another scripture of spiritual degrees:

22 For there is nothing hidden, except to be disclosed; nor is anything secret, except to come to light. 23 Let anyone with ears to hear listen!" 24 And he said to them, "Pay attention to what you hear; the measure you give will be the measure you get, and still more will be given you. 25 For to those who have, more will be given; and from those who have nothing, even what they have will be taken away."

Serious words.

EphesiansGal, I commend you for backing up what you believe with scripture. Bravo!

I think, though, you are confusing the Holy Spirit, who is always with us, as Jesus was with the Apostles and believers on earth, with spiritual growth.

The Holy Spirit is Jesus in the Spirit, just as Jesus was God in the flesh. . .

Jesus was here on earth with man. He could not be more or less with them, he just was. In the same way, the Holy Spirit is with us. A constant in our lives. He helps us grow and gives us insite and wisdom, just as Jesus did, as we learn and grow. He can not be more or less with us. He just is. Always, from the day we become redeemed by the blood of Christ.

Spiritual growh is another thing, all-together. That is something that we must do - "continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12) That is what the Holy Spirit is for.

Let's remember folks the context of the Bible is the whole Bible, not verses, chapters or even books.

[Vickilynn]

EphesiansGal, I commend you for backing up what you believe with scripture. Bravo!

I think, though, you are confusing the Holy Spirit, who is always with us, as Jesus was with the Apostles and believers on earth, with spiritual growth.

The Holy Spirit is Jesus in the Spirit, just as Jesus was God in the flesh. . .

Jesus was here on earth with man. He could not be more or less with them, he just was. In the same way, the Holy Spirit is with us. A constant in our lives. He helps us grow and gives us insite and wisdom, just as Jesus did, as we learn and grow. He can not be more or less with us. He just is. Always, from the day we become redeemed by the blood of Christ.

Spiritual growh is another thing, all-together. That is something that we must do - "continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12) That is what the Holy Spirit is for.

Let's remember folks the context of the Bible is the whole Bible, not verses, chapters or even books.

Shalom Biblicist,

Amen and amen!

And also, one cannot make a doctrine based on ONE verse, especially when it's wrongly applied.

Doctrines MUST be supported by the correct understanding of the Scriptures.

So many take Scriptures out of context to make it fit THEIR pre-set theology, and that's not doctrine.

[methinkshe]

Dear brothers and sisters,

I gave an honest reply to the initial question re what was it like when one first spoke in tongues. I also explained how I had let the gift lapse - I became so concerned about the possibility of counterfeit and being led by another spirit than the Holy Spirit. I was fearful, in other words. Yet I still retained the ability to speak in tongues at will. It was never an emotional response that had to be drummed up through hours of singing repetitive worship songs, for instance. It was just another language (or two) that seemed to come readily to my tongue IF I CHOSE to exercise the gift. It has always been under my control, so much that I ceased to exercise it for 25 years because I was so concerned about the potential for counterfeit. I still am, to be honest, and rarely speak in tongues other than in private prayer. But I am beginnning to understand that there is the potential for chucking the baby out with the bathwater when guarding against other spirits. My children are now speaking in tongues and far be it from me to cast any aspersions....I need to encourage them, I believe.

I'd really be pleased to hear how other members of the body overcome this dichotomy - the very real potential for counterfeit (and all good forgeries are necessarily very convincing) versus the genuine gift of tongues. Believe me, reticence is my problem, not a necessity to be shut up.

In Jesus

Ruth

[Vickilynn]

Dear brothers and sisters,

I gave an honest reply to the initial question re what was it like when one first spoke in tongues. I also explained how I had let the gift lapse - I became so concerned about the possibility of counterfeit and being led by another spirit than the Holy Spirit. I was fearful, in other words. Yet I still retained the ability to speak in tongues at will. It was never an emotional response that had to be drummed up through hours of singing repetitive worship songs, for instance. It was just another language (or two) that seemed to come readily to my tongue IF I CHOSE to exercise the gift. It has always been under my control, so much that I ceased to exercise it for 25 years because I was so concerned about the potential for counterfeit. I still am, to be honest, and rarely speak in tongues other than in private prayer. But I am beginnning to understand that there is the potential for chucking the baby out with the bathwater when guarding against other spirits. My children are now speaking in tongues and far be it from me to cast any aspersions....I need to encourage them, I believe.

I'd really be pleased to hear how other members of the body overcome this dichotomy - the very real potential for counterfeit (and all good forgeries are necessarily very convincing) versus the genuine gift of tongues. Believe me, reticence is my problem, not a necessity to be shut up.

In Jesus

Ruth

Shalom Ruth,

I totally understand your concern and it is valid. There is quite a bit of counterfeit out there. I actually saw quite a bit of it in the Pentecostal churches I was in and had to "unlearn" some of their ways when I started maturing and read the Word for myself.

You are correct, tongues is not something that should be learned, or drummed up or anything. It is a gift of G-d pure and simple.

I would encourage you to pray and ask the L-rd to give you peace about your prayer language and to know in your spirit that it is from Him. One way, is like you mentioned, keeping it between Him and you, in a private prayer language. This would ensure that the tongues are for you and G-d and not for any other reason. He will lead you and guide you as you walk in this gift.