Spiritual Language (Tongues)

[Floatingaxe]

Being filled with the spirit may be for everyone, but the Bible makes clear that tongues is not.

It is false teaching to tell someone to ask for the gift of tongues and they will receive it. This gift was never meant for everyone.

I don't remember reading anyone saying that. By all means, the gift of tongues used for public exhortation is only for those who are blessed to have been given it.

This was said in a post on this thread concerning tongues.

Peeps, desire this and ask the Lord. He will do it, praise His name. Don't be fearful, no need. You will be in the arms of One Who loves you more than any other.

My post was in response to the above quote.

Since my response was right after your post I can see how you might have thought it was meant specifically for you.

I see!

Do you realize, though, that EphesiansGal was not talking solely about the gift of tongues? It was only inferred, but she was really discussing the whole experience of being baptized or filled with the Holy Spirit.

[Vickilynn]

The Scriptures are clear. We have ALL of the Holy Spirit when we are born-again. It grieves Jesus by saying what He did on the Cross isn't good enough and we need something else! That is false doctrine. The word says to rebuke the false teacher and reject their false doctrine and that is what I'm doing. He gives us ALL we need. We only need to walk in it.

Edited April 28, 2007 by Ovedya

[Vickilynn]

I would never suggest anyone seek the gift of tongues, but rather the baptism. Tongues is good, but the baptism is better. Many a prophet has been born that way.

Shalom E-Gal,

The Scriptures say plainly that we have ALL of the Holy Spirit when we are born-again. To tell someone to ask for something they already have is false teaching. If we are born-again, we have ALL that we need, we simply need to walk in it.

[Ovedya]

Okay.

Let's continue this discussion, remembering our TOS, "Debate the issue not the person..."

I am very interested in the argument that there is the need of a second baptism in the lives of believers, and that such a baptism is necessary for the empowerment of ministry and to understand the depths of the Scriptures, and to mature in the Christian life. I would ask anyone who espouses such a philosophy to evidence where in the Scriptures these things are specifically taught.

Grace,

O

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Ovedya,

Thank you for your watchful eye. I apologize for overstepping the TOS. I hope we can continue this discussion, this time with grace.

[methinkshe]

Okay.

Let's continue this discussion, remembering our TOS, "Debate the issue not the person..."

I am very interested in the argument that there is the need of a second baptism in the lives of believers, and that such a baptism is necessary for the empowerment of ministry and to understand the depths of the Scriptures, and to mature in the Christian life. I would ask anyone who espouses such a philosophy to evidence where in the Scriptures these things are specifically taught.

Grace,

O

Hello, Ovedya,

I'm not sure that it is a second baptism that is needed so much as a fuller revelation of what is available through Jesus. I do know that I and many others whom I know had a head assent type conversion followed (sometimes many years later) by a very supernatural spiritual event that included the gift of tongues. Am I saying that this is a necessity for salvation? By no means! My father who was a truly born again believer never experienced the gift of tongues, but I never felt that in any way he was deficient in his spiritual walk with Jesus. I think that the following verses may go some way to explaining. What think you?

"While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."

So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"

"John's baptism," they replied.

Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all."

Acts 19:1-7

I can only speak from experience and it does seem to me that there is available an infilling of the Holy Spirit that is for all believers but which may not have occurred at the first moment of belief. And if I have rightly read the above passage, it would seem to confirm it. But, hey, I do not want to make this a doctrine.......!

BTW, Thank you so much FA and ...Gal something...sorry I don't know how to go back and check your name without losing this reply - I'm really very stupid at using computers. Anyway, just wanted to thank you both for your encouraging words and for your love in Jesus.

Ruth

[Floatingaxe]

Love you, Ruth.

[Vickilynn]

Hello, Ovedya,

I'm not sure that it is a second baptism that is needed so much as a fuller revelation of what is available through Jesus. I do know that I and many others whom I know had a head assent type conversion followed (sometimes many years later) by a very supernatural spiritual event that included the gift of tongues. Am I saying that this is a necessity for salvation? By no means! My father who was a truly born again believer never experienced the gift of tongues, but I never felt that in any way he was deficient in his spiritual walk with Jesus. I think that the following verses may go some way to explaining. What think you?

"While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."

So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"

"John's baptism," they replied.

Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all."

Acts 19:1-7

I can only speak from experience and it does seem to me that there is available an infilling of the Holy Spirit that is for all believers but which may not have occurred at the first moment of belief. And if I have rightly read the above passage, it would seem to confirm it. But, hey, I do not want to make this a doctrine.......!

BTW, Thank you so much FA and ...Gal something...sorry I don't know how to go back and check your name without losing this reply - I'm really very stupid at using computers. Anyway, just wanted to thank you both for your encouraging words and for your love in Jesus.

Ruth

Shalom Ruth,

Ovedya addressed that verse several times in this thread and stated that these were not Believers in Jesus, but disciples of John.

1 While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions until he reached Ephesus, on the coast, where he found several believers. 2 "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them.

"No," they replied, "we haven

[methinkshe]

Shalom Ruth,

Ovedya addressed that verse several times in this thread and stated that these were not Believers in Jesus, but disciples of John.

Yes but no but....

Those who believed in John's baptism of repentance were the same as all old testament saints who were saved by faith in the Messiah who was to come - witness Abraham whose FAITH was counted to Him as righteousness. The whole Levitical Law and the Tabernacle and the Ark of the Covenant was but a pictorial demonstration of Jesus - that same Jesus who created the world (John 1) and who walked and talked with Adam and Eve in the Grden of Eden. So it was not that they that were not believers in Jesus (the Messiah) but that they had not received the Holy Spirit, the Power from on High that Jesus sent when he asceneded into heaven. At least, that's my understanding.

Blessings

Ruth

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Ruth,

Ovedya addressed that verse several times in this thread and stated that these were not Believers in Jesus, but disciples of John.

Yes but no but....

Those who believed in John's baptism of repentance were the same as all old testament saints who were saved by faith in the Messiah who was to come - witness Abraham whose FAITH was counted to Him as righteousness. The whole Levitical Law and the Tabernacle and the Ark of the Covenant was but a pictorial demonstration of Jesus - that same Jesus who created the world (John 1) and who walked and talked with Adam and Eve in the Grden of Eden. So it was not that they that were not believers in Jesus (the Messiah) but that they had not received the Holy Spirit, the Power from on High that Jesus sent when he asceneded into heaven. At least, that's my understanding.

Blessings

Ruth

Shalom Ruth,

I'm not Ovedya and perhaps he can address this more accurately since he did the study on it, but your explanation about the OT saints has no relation to the verse and whether these were in fact saved or not. The whole case for a separate baptism rests on this verse and the claim that these were already believers, when in fact they were NOT believers in Jesus, and were filled and baptized with the Holy Spirit, as we all are, when they did believe in Jesus.

At least that's how I am reading what Ovedya wrote.