Spiritual Language (Tongues)

[Floatingaxe]

Hi again Ruth, blessings!

I love your recognition of Jesus in the divine sense, the Alpha and Omega, the all in all.

It would be good to do a study on the Jesus of the Old Testament, so that New Testament saints get a feel for "completed Israel", i.e. Spiritual Israel, the new Jerusalem, the bride of Christ.

The way I have understood it, Jesus is coming back for a perfect bride. New Testament saved Gentiles need to know that the perfect bride includes not only them but also the Israel of old, whom God has not cast off, and who receive the Lord obviously, plus those of us grafted into the vine. I sometimes think we have an arrogance in the New Testament church that puts us at odds with the plan of God, because we think we have it all. But unless we can show some humility and love, and a demonstration of all good spiritual fruit and power, it will not be we who provoke Isreal to jealousy, but put them off instead.

You are doing a lot better than me in this respect.

Much love from EphesiansGal

Shalom Ruth,

Ovedya addressed that verse several times in this thread and stated that these were not Believers in Jesus, but disciples of John.

Yes but no but....

Those who believed in John's baptism of repentance were the same as all old testament saints who were saved by faith in the Messiah who was to come - witness Abraham whose FAITH was counted to Him as righteousness. The whole Levitical Law and the Tabernacle and the Ark of the Covenant was but a pictorial demonstration of Jesus - that same Jesus who created the world (John 1) and who walked and talked with Adam and Eve in the Grden of Eden. So it was not that they that were not believers in Jesus (the Messiah) but that they had not received the Holy Spirit, the Power from on High that Jesus sent when he asceneded into heaven. At least, that's my understanding.

Blessings

Ruth

Both of you have my admiration!

[Yahsway]

John had his disciples and Jesus had His disciples which is evident in Matt. 9:14

Then the disciples of John came to Him (Jesus) saying "Why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but Your disciples do not fast?"

There are still some disciples of John today. Here in the US they live predominately in New Jersey. In the middle East they are in Iraq and Iran. They are called the Mandaeans and they are estimated to be around 100,000 in number.

[Floatingaxe]

John had his disciples and Jesus had His disciples which is evident in Matt. 9:14

Then the disciples of John came to Him (Jesus) saying "Why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but Your disciples do not fast?"

There are still some disciples of John today. Here in the US they live predominately in New Jersey. In the middle East they are in Iraq and Iran. They are called the Mandaeans and they are estimated to be around 100,000 in number.

Never heard of such people. Weird.

[Floatingaxe]

I read a bit about these people (the Mandaeans) and they are not followers of John per se. They recognize him as a prophet, but as they do not recognize Jesus as a prophet, then they are simply a delusional group who have nothing to say. They are middle eastern. They are not evangelical or missionary in zeal, so they are just another lost bunch of people. Set apart the way they are, no wonder they are weird.

[Scarletprayers]

What gets me, I at least can admit I might be wrong and try to listen to other peoples side, but when somebody starts telling me how they are right, and everybody else is wrong, but cause the Holy Spirit told them, and by their very attitude show the Spirit is not working in them, I quit listening and so does anybody that really wants to know the truth.

Great Godly Christian scholars can't agree on this, yet you know the truth, what arrogance.

[Vickilynn]

What gets me, I at least can admit I might be wrong and try to listen to other peoples side, but when somebody starts telling me how they are right, and everybody else is wrong, but cause the Holy Spirit told them, and by their very attitude show the Spirit is not working in them, I quit listening and so does anybody that really wants to know the truth.

Great Godly Christian scholars can't agree on this, yet you know the truth, what arrogance.

Shalom SP,

You are correct, and discerning these things through the power of the Holy Spirit working within you.

[Scarletprayers]

But you will find by and large, that those who have experienced the baptism with the Holy Ghost do tend to agree on many things, that there is some unity in the Spirit, even though there is a uniqueness of call. That is why Paul was so anxious that the new disciples should receive the blessing. It is a whole new ball game and it beats plodding along with heavy religious boots when this is all just there for the asking.

But be prepared, count the cost. I am saying there will be opposition and suffering and all kinds of things that will come against us. God will use them for His glory. To whom much is given, much is expected.

BTW do we think the disciples were scholarly? No, they were simple men. We have to become like little children. It means humbling ourselves to trust and to listen and to receive. God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

I will never apologise for what I know to be the truth in Jesus. I will never soften the message to spare the feelings of those who are making excuses for their unbelief and trying to guilt trip me into backing down. I have a fire in my belly and I cannot keep quiet. This matter is far too important. Lives are at stake.

I do not think it is arrogance to KNOW that I need the Holy Spirit, and as much of Him as I can, and more if He will allow. Others may think they can go it alone. I certainly can't.

Love, in Him.

What gets me, I at least can admit I might be wrong and try to listen to other peoples side, but when somebody starts telling me how they are right, and everybody else is wrong, but cause the Holy Spirit told them, and by their very attitude show the Spirit is not working in them, I quit listening and so does anybody that really wants to know the truth.

Great Godly Christian scholars can't agree on this, yet you know the truth, what arrogance.

And here is my point. Anything not done in LOVE, might as well not be done at all.

[Vickilynn]

I will never soften the message to spare the feelings of those who are making excuses for their unbelief and trying to guilt trip me into backing down. I have a fire in my belly and I cannot keep quiet .

1 Corinthians 13

The Way of Love

1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

13So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

[Floatingaxe]

But you will find by and large, that those who have experienced the baptism with the Holy Ghost do tend to agree on many things, that there is some unity in the Spirit, even though there is a uniqueness of call. That is why Paul was so anxious that the new disciples should receive the blessing. It is a whole new ball game and it beats plodding along with heavy religious boots when this is all just there for the asking.

But be prepared, count the cost. I am saying there will be opposition and suffering and all kinds of things that will come against us. God will use them for His glory. To whom much is given, much is expected.

BTW do we think the disciples were scholarly? No, they were simple men. We have to become like little children. It means humbling ourselves to trust and to listen and to receive. God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

I will never apologise for what I know to be the truth in Jesus. I will never soften the message to spare the feelings of those who are making excuses for their unbelief and trying to guilt trip me into backing down. I have a fire in my belly and I cannot keep quiet. This matter is far too important. Lives are at stake.

I do not think it is arrogance to KNOW that I need the Holy Spirit, and as much of Him as I can, and more if He will allow. Others may think they can go it alone. I certainly can't.

Love, in Him.

Totally! God bless you, EphesiansGal!

[Scarletprayers]

And thats all you got from what I said, how very sad.