No Second Chance

[Ash]

A parting word. What is it that facinates us with this subject? Is it not pride that would like us to see all these billions of people suffer an eternal damnation because they didn't come to Christ, even the ones that never heard of Him in their lifetimes. And if we really believe that these other people are going to suffer in an everlasting tormenting fire, what are we doing here wasting precious time in our selfcentered endeavor with this? And honestly how do we call our God loving, but capable of tormenting his own creation for all eternity. Even the victims of Saddam and Hitler found peace in death. Doesn't this completely fly in the face of what we know about God?

In love...

I would use the word "concern" here, in place of "pride" Teri. The more we learn ourselves, the more we can help counsel others who are unsaved. Pride??? I think not! Man, my own brother is unsaved, and many of my friends too - you think I get my kicks about thinking that one day they're going to burning in hell? Sheesh, no way man! This is not wasting time on a selfcentered endeavor at all!

"I am the way and the truth and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father except through me" - Jesus. (John 14:6) (I didn't say it - HE did!)

[traveller]

If I may ask, whose teachings is this about second chances?

[Guest Calamity]

Teri: "This is not to say that we should just run around and sin and make bad choices because we are going to get a second chance. But some of us were called here in this flesh to serve a master of Spirit. And because of that maybe we should quit putting time limits on Gods grace because God does not live in the realm of time. Time is a created thing for the flesh and not part of the place where God abodes.

A parting word. What is it that facinates us with this subject? Is it not pride that would like us to see all these billions of people suffer an eternal damnation because they didn't come to Christ, even the ones that never heard of Him in their lifetimes. And if we really believe that these other people are going to suffer in an everlasting tormenting fire, what are we doing here wasting precious time in our selfcentered endeavor with this? And honestly how do we call our God loving, but capable of tormenting his own creation for all eternity. Even the victims of Saddam and Hitler found peace in death. Doesn't this completely fly in the face of what we know about God?"

--------------------------------------------

Teri, before I respond, do I understand you correctly, that those who are not saved have a second chance after death? And, also, before I respond, do you believe that hell is a literal, real place where the unsaved and the devil and his angels go? Thanks.

[Matthitjah]

Peace, Grace and Love in Christ Jesus,

I believe One Accord speaks of the doctrine held by some of Purgatory.

Second chance?

I will tell the argument I have heard and know of.

It goes like this.

So and so a brother in Christ is having relations with your wife?? (first of all bad premise. Not my argument though)

He suddenly dies of a massive coronary. Never repenting for his current state of sin.

Where does he go? Their answer purgatory.

To expiate his sin.

Problem is just being in this flesh demands Grace.

Problem is what work you gonna offer for your sin? What sacrifice?

How long do you have to work it off?

I also think bad premise.

Why wasn't the man executing True Judgment anyway?

PURG'ATORY, n. , a supposed place or state after death, in which the souls of persons are purified, or in which they expiate such offenses committed in this life, as do not merit eternal damnation. After this purgation from the impurities of sin, the souls are supposed to be received into heaven.

Once to die then the judgment! Right, or once to die then the judgment, then the judgment. Would expiation not be a work. Wothy of boasting? Or is this True?

Eph

[OneAccord]

What about those untolds billions of people all over the world all down through the river of time that never even heard of the gospel, that died, both before and after Christ?

What about babies or mentally deranged people who are not capable of making a conscious salvation decision?

What about all the Jews who have died through the centuries refusing to accept Christ as Saviour? When Paul says "yet all of Israel shall be saved" does he mean the dead ones too or only those that chance to be alive in the glorious coming or does 'all' mean 'remnant'?

What about the peoples living in remote corners of the earth, are they all burning in hell because some chance missionary never got there with a Bible to tell them the Good News?

What about those who were raised up and indoctrinated in some other religion, such as Islam or Hinduism, that never had any exposure to teachings about Christ, or if they did it was at great peril to their lives and families?

What about all those 'other' denominations of Christianity and cults, etc that appear to have some 'other Jesus' or false teachings, such as Mormons, JWs, Catholics, etc?

What about all those raised up in churches never having a true conversion experience?

Is God able and willing to save only a select few who happen to stumble on the correct version of the gospel? The rest damned for eternity? Do you honestly think there is no provision for all these untold billions of souls?

[OneAccord]

Luke 16

[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Is the 'Rich Man and Lazurus' a parable or do we take it absolutely literally?

Matthew 13:34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them.

[George]

The absolute thing that we know is that God is a JUST God. I believe it's a dangerous thing to speculate about things which are not in the Word. We know that God is not only a God of Justice, but that of righteousness, holiness and love. We do know the Bible says, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment," (Hebrews 9:27) so we should be working as hard as we can for the Lord bringing in the lost. As far as speculations are concerned -- let's trust that God is who He says He is!

I believe anyone answering speculatory questions is really diving into a realm one shouldn't enter, because His ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

[Guest Calamity]

Luke 16

[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Is the 'Rich Man and Lazurus' a parable or do we take it absolutely literally?

Matthew 13:34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them.

George, you are right. OneAccord, I've heard those who believe this was a parable, and others who think it wasn't because Lazarus was named. Either way, it's there for our use, parable or not.

[WayneB]

Is God able and willing to save only a select few who happen to stumble on the correct version of the gospel?

Stumble? We may not understand God's plan but He made it clear that there is no excuse for not knowing Him. A friend of mine who happens to be enrolled in a Wesleyan seminary agrees with you. I don't... Paul said it best in his letter to the believers in Rome.

Romans Chapter 1 --

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.

Is the 'Rich Man and Lazurus' a parable or do we take it absolutely literally?

Does it matter? The meaning is the same when it comes from God.

God Bless,

Wayne

[OneAccord]

I'm not sure if I understand your response, George. Are you saying that wondering if the bulk of humanity is destined to suffering eternal torture in hell by the God of steadfast love and mercy is speculating? Because that is essentially what we are being taught (and supposed to be teaching), are we never to question it?

I am teaching and training my 4 year old daughter Biblical principles, at what point do I introduce the hell doctrine to her? Oh, by the way, Grandma and your big sister are both going to hell if they die tonight because they don't love Jesus? Does it ever trouble anyone to teach this to their children?

I wrestle with this one bigtime, because I cannot seem to integrate the God of steadfast love, longsuffering and tender mercies with a God that condemns His own creations to everlasting damnation, who never asked to be created in the first place, much less infected with sin because of Adam thousands of years ago. The whole thing smacks of sadism , to think He would create some for the express purpose of revealing His wrath, knowing full well from the foundation of the earth that they would all be sinners and who would or wouldn't accept Jesus as Lord during this lifetime, and not only that but actually hardening hearts so they don't stand a chance.