Repentance and Salvation

[WayneB]

Before I start, I am looking for an insightful discussion not a divisive one. It is my intention to grow and learn, not to prove myself right.

Ok, that being said...here goes ---

What comes first? Repentance from sin or Salvation by Grace.

Is it possible to repent from sin without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

If repentance of sin is the first step. does that make our salvation subject to our works?

If Salvation by Grace comes first, which leads us to repentance of sin because of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, then why do so many Christian denominations teach differently? What does your church teach?

OK, you know which way I lean. I believe there is a difference between repentance of self and repentance of sin. So many people remain lost because we teach them that they must "repent and be saved" rather than "be saved and you will want to repent."

Blessings,

Wayne

[CWJ]

My thought on it is this: At the moment you "turn" from everything (sin, your good work,ie.) and turn to Jesus and believe, or trust, totally in Him to "save' you, then repentance(of sins) I think is going to be an ongoing Part of the believer walk, due to the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit which will "convict" you of sins.

I guess the "repent and beleive" to me means at the same instant...and you have totally trusted what Jesus said He would do. This "faith" is when Jesus Baptises you with the Holy Spirit, thereby re-birthing your spirit-man.

1Peter 3:21..."The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us ( not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Blessings, Carl

[tsth]

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Ac 3:19 - Show Context

Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

Acts 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,

Ac 26:20 - but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[WayneB]

Years ago, I was invited to a fish fry (that's what we do in the South) at the home of a member of our church. Our pastor and his wife were there as well as was a handful of folks. I struck up a conversation with the husband of the hostess, a man that I had seen in church often with his wife. During the conversation, he told me that he wasn't a Christian. I couldn't understand why. I told him that he appeared faithful with his church attendance. What was keeping him from turning his life over to the Lord? Did he just not agree with the Word and attend church for his wife? What could it be? He held up his hand in which he held a lit cigarette and told me that he smoked. I said, "So what?" He said that was sin and until he repented of it, he could not receive Christ into his life. I was shocked! I ministered to him to no avail. Later, I even spoke to the Pastor of our church because I wanted to make sure that was not something that he was teaching. It wasn't. The misunderstanding was left over from many years past of bad doctrine in our church. Today, my friend still smokes and remains unsaved and it is a burden on me. I am convinced that when we fall on our knees before the Lord and He takes us in his arms (repent from self), His Grace is sufficient and at that moment the Holy Spirit enters us and He leads us into a repentant state (repent from sin), which is what sanctification is all about...the process of being made Christlike.

I appreciate your responses and I look forward to reading more. By the way, I received Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior four years before I quit smoking. Now the point is not whether or not smoking is a sin. The point is that I quit smoking out of a desire to clean out my temple.

God Bless,

Wayne

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Wayne,

OK, you know which way I lean. I believe there is a difference between repentance of self and repentance of sin. So many people remain lost because we teach them that they must "repent and be saved" rather than "be saved and you will want to repent."

2 Cor 7:9-10 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

The LAW came first, and its purpose was to convict a person of his unrighteousness before a Holy God. Repentance simply means to do a 380 and walk not according to the world, but according to the new path laid before you. It does not mean that you will automatically stop sinning. There MAY BE some things you will stop doing upon hearing the Gospel (which is God's power unto salvation), but until the Holy Spirit CONVICTS you of a sin, and your acknowledgement of it, asking God for help in overcoming it through the power of the Holy Spirit, many will continue to commit sin. Now what you may call a sin, may not be sin for another.

A friend of mine used to love playing cards, any cards, but he found that it was consuming his time and energies which the Lord wanted spent on Him. The Holy Spirit convicted him of it, he repented and now no longer plays cards. I used to drink, even for a short time after coming to the Lord, but the Holy Spirit revealed to me that it was making me a terrible witness to Him. He gave me the power to quit and I have been free for many years now. Well, I play cards, and God has never convicted me of it. Also, I have never felt I could condemn those who drink - at least moderately. Many cultures drink a little wine with their dinner, and Paul even instructed Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach. We also see the wedding at Cana where Jesus created some VERY GOOD wine from water. I don't believe that was just grape juice.

Now I would not encourage anyone to drink because it CAN become a demon to them, and be a detriment to their walk with the Lord. But I will not argue with someone or dis-fellowship with someone who embibes alcohol or wine in moderation. Even "smoking" will not stop someone from entering Heaven. If you are concerned with this verse:

1 Cor 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

then by all means, get rid of anything that binds, anything that causes you to lose faith, anything that you might consider sin, which includes your eating habits, your free time activities, your relationships, your pride, things that you know you should do but don't.

Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

But remember, what you may consider sin, someone else may not, especially if it is not strictly prohibited by the scriptures i.e. murdering, lying, homosexuality, beastiality, et al.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[tsth]

Repentance is the willingness of the heart. It is not what you have done, but what you are willing to "let" God DO. You cannot say you love someone, and are betrothed to someone, yet only give them a "portion" of your heart, and the rest to someone/something else. Are you willing to surrender all?

I believe Acts 26:20, is the order of the occasion of repentance.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[WayneB]

Repentance is the willingness of the heart. It is not what you have done, but what you are willing to "let" God DO.

A BIG Amen! That is what I meant when I said repent (turn from) self. Unfortunately, many church leaders of various denominations do not present it that way and many people remain lost because they are told that they have to "repent of their sin" before they present themselves to the Lord. All I know is that the Lord will provide my wedding garments. Tide may be a good detergent but it ain't strong enough to clean our own clothes. Only the blood of the Lamb can do that!

There MAY BE some things you will stop doing upon hearing the Gospel (which is God's power unto salvation), but until the Holy Spirit CONVICTS you of a sin, and your acknowledgement of it, asking God for help in overcoming it through the power of the Holy Spirit, many will continue to commit sin.

Thanks Dad Ernie for your comments. Exactly my point. We cannot overcome sin without the power of God's Holy Spirit!

Bless all of you,

Wayne

[endure4salvation]

In Luke 13, Jesus says:

Unless you repent, you will perish.

Without repentance, there is no salvation.

God calls people by the Holy Spirit and convicts and it is the choice of such individual to accept Christ as Savior. So I say there is a 3rd that needs to be addressed:

1. God makes salvation available and does the calling

2. Person repents

3. Person is saved

[CWJ]

1. God makes salvation available and does the calling

2. Person repents

3. Person is saved

So just how many times can this happen? ONCE.

I believe that scriptures teach:

1. The call of Grace

2. The conviction/repentance from self resulting in a total

turning /trusting to Jesus.

3. This results in re-birth of the man-spirit, making a new creature(sinless)

that will live eternally. SAVED

Face it, without Grace we have no hope, for none of us were looking for Christ.

Praise His Name! :il:

[endure4salvation]

1. God makes salvation available and does the calling

2. Person repents

3. Person is saved

So just how many times can this happen? ONCE.

I believe that scriptures teach:

1. The call of Grace

2. The conviction/repentance from self resulting in a total

turning /trusting to Jesus.

3. This results in re-birth of the man-spirit, making a new creature(sinless)

that will live eternally. SAVED

Face it, without Grace we have no hope, for none of us were looking for Christ.

Praise His Name! :il:

There are many other threads for discussing OSAS/UES.

This one is repentance and salvation.