Are we commanded to cut our hair or not?

[Ovedya]

Just an observation according to experience...

I saw the word "Pharisaical" used a few times in this thread.

It's been my experience that many who claim that we have various freedoms in Christ and yet ignore the fact that we are also restricted by Christ and by God's Word, are the first to shout "Pharisee!" the minute they are reminded of those restrictions.

Those that claim that we are restricted to following a new set of commandments and so should work to obey them are usually the first to claim that those who enjoy our freedoms in Christ are not saved to begin with - at least they tend to question other's faithfulness to the Lord Jesus.

It's my opinion that the Bible very clearly shows us that there is a balance between legalism and freedom. It's neither one nor the other - it's both!

[Floatingaxe]

People! Just don't be so legal with new believers. Let God do His job about such things. We are to be examples in word and deed. Give the world a few turns and watch the weaker brothers and sisters begin to emulate us!

All this tension over such a subject is just one of the reasons I worry about weaker Christians coming here and misunderstanding, coming away with the opinion that we are judgmental people.

[Ovedya]

[Floatingaxe]

'Floatingaxe'

Whoa! First off, I am speechless at this! I don't even know if I can go on in this discussion after knowing this is what you believe! The Holy Spirit is Jesus, is God! I say, "Good morning, Holy Spirit!" every morning when I wake up! He is our constant companion! Get this....please!

I like the way you conveniently left the rest of what I was saying entirely out. If you want to talk to the Holy Spirit in the manner you do that is your business but don't twist my words around because I ask questions of what you posted. As for me I get up in the morning and talk to my Heavenly Father through Jesus name and I ask that the Lord would allow the Holy Spirit to teach me and go out before me on this day etc., I do not pray to the Holy Spirit. It is Jesus who is my friend who sticketh closer than a brother. God's presence through the Holy Spirit resides with us and is present with us in our lives.

But if you feel you can't carry on the discussion because of what I believe after I already stated all three were God but different functions then it is you who has the problem and not I.

When I suggest less rigidity, I am speaking against phariseeim and legalism...abiding by the letter of the law---not the spirit of it, which is its essence.

Maturity in Christ brings a softening...a person makes a change in his appearance in keepng with what the Holy Spirit impresses on him.....not us! I would never teach a man or a woman who has come to Christ to change his or her appearance! That would be legalism. God is capable of bringing about change Himself! I have rarely seen a hold-out among maturing new believers. As they grow, they lose that look...it is fascinating, and a blessing to see! God at work in a life is a joy to witness!

For it is the word of God that washes us as well as the blood of Christ as we conform to the word of God for the word is our guide it is our truth that we are to live by and pattern our Christian lives after. It is profitable for instructions in godly living it is how we know what is right and wrong in a twisted and perverse society all around us. A person who was thinking about having there hair cut being a Christian to start with would never be thinking about it to start with if there wasn't something pulling him to the word to find out what it says about it. Then there are those who would tell this poor soul to not listen to anything the word has to say or anyone else's opinions cause it is just phariseeum and legalism and you'll just be abiding by the letter of the law cause no outward conformity to God's word would make you righteous hey don't you know that.

It's a bunch of hog wash in my opinion for God didn't give us His new covenant to turn our noses up at it and say that don't apply but if one is really a Christian then as God's softens they poor heart they will conform to the word then and only then. No they could have conformed to God's word any time they wanted to all they had to do is read it then obey it is that simple and if that make one a legalist and a Pharisee which even they didn't even do that but instead they twisted God's word so they didn't have to conform and obey it. Well all I know is double talk ain't no good.

oc

Me? Problem? I don't separate the Persons of the Trinity. I can talk to any one, as they are all GOD. I talk to Jesus, I talk to the Father, I talk to Jehovah Nissi, Jehovah Jireh, Jehova Tsidkenu, Jehovah Shamah, Counselor, Physician, Mighty Fortress, Strong Tower, Saviour, Lord, and many, many more...all God!

Now this is really confusing! First you state you don't separte the persons of the Trinity, yet you then say "I can talk to ANY ONE, and THEY are all GOD." You then say you talk to 1. The Father, 2. Jevovah Nissi, 3 Jehovah Jireh, 4 Jehova Tsidkenu, 5 Jehovah Shamah, 6 Counselor, 7 Physician, 8 Mighty Fortress, 9 Strong Tower, 10 Saviour, 11 Lord, and 12,13,etc. many, many more, ALL GOD!" You have done more than divide the trinity. You divided God into a multitude. Wouldn't it just be easier to pray to the Father in Jesus' name? You believe the trinity is God. Why would you start a prayer, "Dear Physician" or "Dear Mighty Fortress?"

You are unaware that God has multitudinous names???????????

[Ovedya]

It's my opinion that many, if not most, Christians end their prayers with "In Jesus' name" because of religious tradition (And even superstition). The Lord Jesus did say to ask all things in His name, but He never prescribed a certain phrase to make our prayers binding. Consider that being in Christ already means that we are in His name.

[Guest shiloh357]

so now those verses pertain to a spiritual side and spiritual hair? oh my....

i understand it very well..so I'm going to follow you and agree that those passages are not for our time.

while I'm at it I'm also going to disregard Ch 14 and always knew tongues was long gone. thanks to you it doesnt pertain to today's time.

never did like that phoney babbling. I knew it was a gift that came and went.

im also agreeing that Paul was lying to the Corinthians back in 1 Cor 1:7. He told them that Christ was coming. I knew Christ let them down.

Thanks to you I can go on and on for pages and pages in 1 Cor and not pick and choose but rather say that it all doesn't pertain to us.

Yeah i think I'll do that!

Yeah... it is clear that you don't understand. Let me explain it this way. We seem to forget that the Bible is a book in history written to a people in history. We have the advantage of reading all of the letters Paul wrote, in their entirety, in one sitting. Any one of us could, basically sit down and read the entire New Testament in an afternoon or so, or at least most of the epistles. We seem to forget that the 1st Christians did not have that ability. It is very likely most of the 1st century Christians never read or listened to someone read the ENTIRE New Testament.

The letters that Paul wrote were different for each church. Paul did not write the same things to the Phillippians that he wrote to the Corinthians, the Galatians or the Colossians. Why? Because when Paul was writing these letters he was addressing the specific needs and challenges each of these congregations were facing. One can follow down through the letter of 1st Corinthians and note that Paul is answering, in order, a list of questions that were sent to him. The verbiage Paul uses every time he changes subject seems to indicate that he is responding to a letter sent to him, asking for his advice.

There are things in those letters of Paul that need to be understood in the light of people and situations they were addressing. Paul's letters were most likely responses to letters he received from believers in churches asking him questions. While there is a lot of what we can personally apply, and we can learn lessons from every part of the Bible, not everything was written with every human being in mind. I think that having the ability to read everything all at once gives the false impression that everything in every letter is to be understood and applied universally.

When Paul was addressing food sacrificed to idols, that was something very particular and unique to first century believers. We don't have to worry about whether or not our supermarkets have butchers who dedicating our steaks to Zeus or something.

Please keep in mind that the Bible is a book in history written to a people in history. Every passage has an author, intended audience, purpose and occasion. So while the Bible is universal in its scope, not every subject addressed, not every commandment given, not every promise made is for every person of every age.

It is a matter of knowing what is spiritually relevant, and the lessons we can learn from the issues faced by Corinthian believers. This is why hermeneutics are so important. We need to understand that Paul's epistles were not originally written to everyone, but to specific groups who needed instruction pretaining the unique, specific and individual challenges they were facing. It is not a case of not being able to glean spiritual understanding and lessons from their experiences and the advice Paul gave them. We might even be able to apply the prinicples in Paul's advice to a situation we are facing today, but we need to understand that the letters are addressing a people in history.

Any text in Scripture must be understood with respect to the object the author had in view. Unfortunately, all to often we read our own culture into the Bible, and that is why we end up arguing over things like drinking wine, or hair length, or whether or not it is a sin to wear jewlery, or other such nonsense.

Whenever you read the Bible you need to take into account the intention of author, his purpose AND his intended audience. That is part of understanding the Bible. The study of Scripture is as much intellectual as it is spiritual. We need to see that Paul's letters are different to each congregation based upon the needs and issues they faced.

This is why Paul said, "I am become all things to all people, that I might win some." His point is that he empathized with his audience. Paul did not write the same thing to the Corinthians that he did to the Colossians or the Philippians. Paul did not reason with the Greeks from the Talmud and did not defer to Plato when debating in the synagogues.

Paul took his individual audiences into account, and he delivered the gospel in a way that spoke to their needs, issues and challenges. There was no "one size fits all" in his ministry. So, we need to understand that when we read a book of Scripture, it is important to know that Paul went to the trouble to craft a message to Corinthians, Colossians, Philippians, etc. that was just for them. While we are able to benefit spiritually and gain insight and instruction for our own lives, we must still keep a good grip on the fact that his epistles were written to real people with issues and struggles and questions that pertained to the unique challenges that being a Christian in the 1st century posed for them.

Hasn't anyone wondered why Paul didn't address hair length in his letters to ALL of the congregations, if he felt it was important? If it was to be doctrine of instruction universally applicable, then we should expect to find it addressed in every epistle. Paul simply would not have taken for granted or presumptuously assumed that these other people would find out one way or another. That would be irresponsible.

Futhermore, if the issue Paul was addressing was hair length, there would have been specific instructions as to just how long a man's hair can get before he is displeasing to God. Whenever God wants us to know how things are done, he gives us enough details so that his Will is unmistakably clear. We do not have such instructions extant in Scripture with respect to men's hair length. How long is "long?"

[Guest Biblicist]

When Paul was addressing food sacrificed to idols, that was something very particular and unique to first century believers. We don't have to worry about whether or not our supermarkets have butchers who dedicating our steaks to Zeus or something.

One can never be too careful. "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. "

[Guest shiloh357]

When Paul was addressing food sacrificed to idols, that was something very particular and unique to first century believers. We don't have to worry about whether or not our supermarkets have butchers who dedicating our steaks to Zeus or something.

One can never be too careful. "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. "

Oh, really, so do you go to the supermarket or whereever you buy food and check to see if your butcher is dedicating his meat to Jupiter?

Also, do you check to see that your meat did not come from a strangled animal in acoordance to Acts 15, also do you make sure to remove every drop of blood from your meat before cooking, also in accordance to Acts 15?

People get so caught up in the hair length issue, iti would be interesting to see if they approach all biblical laws the same way. How about the laws which say that you are unclean during your monthly cycle and must separate from your husband until the end of the days of your impurity. Do you do that as well? You can never be too careful, you know. Honestly, I bet I can find plenty of internal inconsistencies with respect to how people apply these types of issues.

[Floatingaxe]

so now those verses pertain to a spiritual side and spiritual hair? oh my....

i understand it very well..so I'm going to follow you and agree that those passages are not for our time.

while I'm at it I'm also going to disregard Ch 14 and always knew tongues was long gone. thanks to you it doesnt pertain to today's time.

never did like that phoney babbling. I knew it was a gift that came and went.

im also agreeing that Paul was lying to the Corinthians back in 1 Cor 1:7. He told them that Christ was coming. I knew Christ let them down.

Thanks to you I can go on and on for pages and pages in 1 Cor and not pick and choose but rather say that it all doesn't pertain to us.

Yeah i think I'll do that!

Yeah... it is clear that you don't understand. Let me explain it this way. We seem to forget that the Bible is a book in history written to a people in history. We have the advantage of reading all of the letters Paul wrote, in their entirety, in one sitting. Any one of us could, basically sit down and read the entire New Testament in an afternoon or so, or at least most of the epistles. We seem to forget that the 1st Christians did not have that ability. It is very likely most of the 1st century Christians never read or listened to someone read the ENTIRE New Testament.

The letters that Paul wrote were different for each church. Paul did not write the same things to the Phillippians that he wrote to the Corinthians, the Galatians or the Colossians. Why? Because when Paul was writing these letters he was addressing the specific needs and challenges each of these congregations were facing. One can follow down through the letter of 1st Corinthians and note that Paul is answering, in order, a list of questions that were sent to him. The verbiage Paul uses every time he changes subject seems to indicate that he is responding to a letter sent to him, asking for his advice.

There are things in those letters of Paul that need to be understood in the light of people and situations they were addressing. Paul's letters were most likely responses to letters he received from believers in churches asking him questions. While there is a lot of what we can personally apply, and we can learn lessons from every part of the Bible, not everything was written with every human being in mind. I think that having the ability to read everything all at once gives the false impression that everything in every letter is to be understood and applied universally.

When Paul was addressing food sacrificed to idols, that was something very particular and unique to first century believers. We don't have to worry about whether or not our supermarkets have butchers who dedicating our steaks to Zeus or something.

Please keep in mind that the Bible is a book in history written to a people in history. Every passage has an author, intended audience, purpose and occasion. So while the Bible is universal in its scope, not every subject addressed, not every commandment given, not every promise made is for every person of every age.

It is a matter of knowing what is spiritually relevant, and the lessons we can learn from the issues faced by Corinthian believers. This is why hermeneutics are so important. We need to understand that Paul's epistles were not originally written to everyone, but to specific groups who needed instruction pretaining the unique, specific and individual challenges they were facing. It is not a case of not being able to glean spiritual understanding and lessons from their experiences and the advice Paul gave them. We might even be able to apply the prinicples in Paul's advice to a situation we are facing today, but we need to understand that the letters are addressing a people in history.

Any text in Scripture must be understood with respect to the object the author had in view. Unfortunately, all to often we read our own culture into the Bible, and that is why we end up arguing over things like drinking wine, or hair length, or whether or not it is a sin to wear jewlery, or other such nonsense.

Whenever you read the Bible you need to take into account the intention of author, his purpose AND his intended audience. That is part of understanding the Bible. The study of Scripture is as much intellectual as it is spiritual. We need to see that Paul's letters are different to each congregation based upon the needs and issues they faced.

This is why Paul said, "I am become all things to all people, that I might win some." His point is that he empathized with his audience. Paul did not write the same thing to the Corinthians that he did to the Colossians or the Philippians. Paul did not reason with the Greeks from the Talmud and did not defer to Plato when debating in the synagogues.

Paul took his individual audiences into account, and he delivered the gospel in a way that spoke to their needs, issues and challenges. There was no "one size fits all" in his ministry. So, we need to understand that when we read a book of Scripture, it is important to know that Paul went to the trouble to craft a message to Corinthians, Colossians, Philippians, etc. that was just for them. While we are able to benefit spiritually and gain insight and instruction for our own lives, we must still keep a good grip on the fact that his epistles were written to real people with issues and struggles and questions that pertained to the unique challenges that being a Christian in the 1st century posed for them.

Hasn't anyone wondered why Paul didn't address hair length in his letters to ALL of the congregations, if he felt it was important? If it was to be doctrine of instruction universally applicable, then we should expect to find it addressed in every epistle. Paul simply would not have taken for granted or presumptuously assumed that these other people would find out one way or another. That would be irresponsible.

Futhermore, if the issue Paul was addressing was hair length, there would have been specific instructions as to just how long a man's hair can get before he is displeasing to God. Whenever God wants us to know how things are done, he gives us enough details so that his Will is unmistakably clear. We do not have such instructions extant in Scripture with respect to men's hair length. How long is "long?"

FINALLY! Amen!

[Fiosh]

A couple of things came to mind while reading thru the last few posts:

1. Paul wrote alot more than is contained in the few epistles we have. He also spoke to the churches in person. So, we can't assume he didn't share the same message with all of them at some point.

While I do understand that he was, in some cases, addressing specific questions or problems related to the church addressed, the fact that the epistle is contained in the Canon tells me that is must somehow apply to "us" also.

We need to look beyond the legalistic interpretation, to the spirit of what Paul teaches. For instance, with meat sacrificed to idols...don't think that happens too often anymore in America....least not at the Giant supermarket (as Shiloh points out). But Paul expounds on the teaching in verses 8:8 thru 9:2. We are free but are not to do anything that will lead a weaker brother astray. This applies to alot more than just what we eat.

2. Not only are Biblical teachings applied to different people at different times, but they apply to different parts of our very selves. What immediately comes to mind (not from Paul) is the passage about the Pharisee and the sinner praying in the Temple. We all like to think of ourselves as the guy who says, "have mercy on me, Lord, a sinner". But we all have some of the Pharisee in us. We all, at times, succumb to pride, and prayer becomes a platform for self-aggrandizement. eg. "Thank you, Lord, for filling me with your Holy Spirit so that I can understand your word so clearly!" rather than "Have mercy on me, Lord, for so often I am blinded to your truth and only see what pleases ME".

Or the 2 thieves on the crosses....We like to think of ourselves as the "good thief". Yet, at times, we mock and scorn Jesus by our sin. The "bad thief" also lives in our hearts.

Or Paul's letter to the Galatians: "I am amazed that you are so quickly forsaking the one who called you by the grace of Christ for a different gospel(not that there is another)" 1:6

At first reading, we would assert, "NOT I!". Yet, what is sin? Is it not a turning away from the truth of the Gospel? Is it not saying, even for a moment, that "I know beter than Christ"....that I can do what I want to do? Is it not to try to rationalize the gospel to fit my immediate desire?

Yes, ALL of the Bible applies to us at some point in our lives, or in some dark corner of our soul.

A blessed Easter,

Fiosh