Salvation "IF YOU"

[WayneB]

It';s certainly as clear as the nose on the face of Pinocchio that one can be saved only as many times as Jesus Christ died on the cross. If a person ciould be lost again after he's saved, he coukld never be saved again unless Jesus would return and die a second time, or a third time, or a fourth time in that the FIRST crucifixion of the saviour was totally IN SUFFICENT to guarantee everlasting salvation.

It's school-obvious that "becoming saved again & again" is not possible in view of Hebrews 6:4-6 which plainly states it's "IMPOSSIBLE to be renewed again unto repentance." IMPOSSIBLE means IMPOSSIBLE.  THINK: NO renewal! NO "re-salvation"! NO "getting back on the road to Heaven"! What a horrendoius state of affairs! Those who teach a "O.S.T.R.T.R.T.R." philosophy (ie, "Once Saved, Then Re-Lost, Then Re-Saved, Then Re-lost") had better not become "UN-saved" OR hell will be their jaundiced lot!

It's IMPOSSIBLE to be "saved twice" because one's very "loss of salvation" the first time would mean that the precise moment the Christian sins (James 2:10) after he has been converted, he could never be "re-saved" and he'd be hopeless. This would constitute no Gospel at all.  This would in reality be a "Gospel of Myself Keeping Myself Saved!" I praise God that "He is able to keep me from falling". Thank You, Lord Jesus! All glory to the Lamb!

I HAVE passed (PAST tense) from (eternal) death to (eternal) life. Not "will", but "HAVE".  I AM "born of the Spirit", not WILL BE, but AM.  I AM a "NEW creation (2 Cor. 5:17), with NEW life from above, a NEW name, a NEW nature with NEW desires.  As for my daily walk: "Shall I continue in sin, that grace may abound? GOD FORBID! How shall we that ARE DEAD to sin, live any longer therein?" Here, then, is the precise biblical answer to the "Jimmy Swaggarts" & "Jim & Tammy Bakker's" who "hope" in themselves to "keep from being re-lost." Not US - but HIM! AMEN & All Glory to the Lord Jesus!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

No arguement here Arthur...but that is a different subject entirely.

Hebrews 10:17 Then he adds:  "Their sins and lawless acts

I will remember no more." 18 And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.  19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. 25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another--and all the more as you see the Day approaching. 26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

I can't say it any better than the author of Hebrews. Other than verse 26 that confirms that a believer can turn their back on God and choose sin (separation from God), the issue of "no sacrifice left" is another discussion.

God Bless brother,

Wayne

BTW, Have you considered sharing some testimonials about your ministry. I would be interested. It is awesome to read and experience what God is doing through his children today. No pressure...just would like to hear.

[angels4u]

Amen Arthur

It';s certainly as clear as the nose on the face of Pinocchio that one can be saved only as many times as Jesus Christ died on the cross. If a person ciould be lost again after he's saved, he coukld never be saved again unless Jesus would return and die a second time, or a third time, or a fourth time in that the FIRST crucifixion of the saviour was totally IN SUFFICENT to guarantee everlasting salvation

[Rick]

Maybe it's gut check time!

It's time to identify with the " Jesus" you profess. Is He the " Jesus" who died for your sins and paid the penalty in full, Therefore obtaining salvation for you through belief in Him. Or is He the " Jesus" who left you half saved? He did part of it for you, but you must finish it? That may sound a little harsh, but the reality is, its basically how the salvation discussion is going.

It is sad that such a work that Christ accomplished on the cross has become a devisive point among christians. It becomes a stumbling block to those that are unsaved, and leaves many unsure of what to believe, and deprives them of the joy that comes from security in Christ.

Some reading these posts will care less as to what the issue is, they will continue on in whatever they see as more worthy of their time and interest. Reading only to satisfy their curiosity or some other need of the moment. some will read and question their beliefs, and some will read and change them.

If there is a positive that can come from this issue, then it has to be that some will seek out the truth for themselves. They will abandon man made denomionational beliefs and any and all opinions and assumptions, and look to the word of God for answers. They will search the scriptures and decide for themselves what they personally will accept as the truth about this issue.

With each of us nearer to eternity with each breath we take, one thing is certain. We better know for sure what the truth is. And we definitely want to make sure that we are known of Jesus, and not only know of Him, as some will surely do. For those reading who are lost, ask God for wisdom in discerning the truth, and seek and you shall find. And above all:

" God Forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." Rom. 3:4.

Each of us believes as we choose to beleive. We each have a reason for our belief. But in finding common ground we believe. And that in itself is of extreme importance. If there is to be a work , If there is to be a way that we come together in Christ, let it be that we believe.

" Jesus answered them, and said unto them. This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him Whom He hath sent. " John 6:29.

But of equal importance is what we believe.

Rick

[WayneB]

If there is a positive that can come from this issue, then it has to be that some will seek out the truth for themselves.  They will abandon man made denomionational beliefs and any and all opinions and assumptions, and look to the word of God for answers.  They will search the scriptures and decide for themselves what they personally will accept as the truth about this issue. 

I agree 100% with this statement Rick. God will reveal His Truth to us through His Word as the Holy Spirit gives us understanding and through our experiences from the ministries that He places us in. Our understanding comes from all three -- His Spirit, His Word and our personal experiences.

Regarding gut-check time, you have characterized the discussion wrongly. No one has mentioned anything about being "half-saved"...no such thing. Regardless, the different understanding of doctirne is divisive only if we allow it to be. It should not be but I must ask, isn't that the pupose of Worthy Boards and for that matter, our Sunday School classes? To ask questions? To learn? To grow in Christ? For believers to share testimonies, beliefs and ideas with one another?

If this thread has become divisive, I will humbly bow out and stop posting on it. I would like to close my participation with a post I made on another thread, "The Grape Vine and Unconditional Eternal Security, A look at the Gospel of John, chap 15". If you have already read it, I apologize for the redundantcy.

I believe that we are at an impasse on this thread. Both sides stated their position and it is senseless to continue. Jesus

[endure4salvation]

I'm saying "IF" is not a condition, but an example of fruit bearing by a saint.

Click here to see that no where does the word "IF" mean anything other than a condition.

1. In the event that: If I were to go, I would be late.

  a. Granting that: If that is true, what should we do?

  b. On the condition that: She will play the piano only if she is paid.

  c. Although possibly; even though: It is a handsome if useless trinket.

2. Whether: Ask if he plans to come to the meeting.

3. Used to introduce an exclamatory clause, indicating a wish: If they had only come earlier!

But we can KNOW we have it!

1John 5:13  (present tense KNOW)

Young's Literal Translation also has a present tense BELIEVE to go along with a present tense KNOW, therby making even that proof text conditional upon continued belief.

There is a verse that guarentees eternal life for a saint, from a one time belief!  This makes you one of His sheep.

John 10:28..."And I give unto them eternal life;  and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my Father's hand."

NOW WHAT A SECURITY PROMISE!  PRAISE HIM!

I have told you over and over that John 10:27 contains a condition upon it..........a continued hearing and following of Jesus.

To make John 10:28 say that a person can stop believing in Jesus and still be saved is to take it out of context.

There is ONE condition for us to be saved...we must repent and belief in Jesus, and Him alone as the Way to Salvation, with NOTHING added!

"NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST"

What , tell me,what  do you depend on to "keep" you "in Christ"??

Actually, you just quoted TWO conditions for being saved.......1 = repent........2 = believe. But don't forget the many other conditions required.

I agree that works have nothing to do with salvation. Always have, always will.

If you are 'saved", I assume you agree that one has been "saved" from torment, and the lake of fire.  Right?

Well, no. Not yet anyway. The resurrection will take care of that part. On this earth we then have the ability to be set free FROM (not IN, but FROM) our sins, just like Matthew 1:21 clearly says.

So....if like your examples of atheist...one "turns away"....then what was he

ever saved from?  fOR IF THESE END UP IN THE LAKE OF FIRE....WE SHOULD SAY THEY WERE NEVER SAVED ....RIGHT?

You use the term "turns away".....well, what did they turn away from? They had to belong to God in order to turn away from God, right?

If I went to Philips Arena to watch the Thrashers play, I could very well turn away from watching them. But if I have never been there, what is there to turn away from? (1 Tim. 4:1)

Also, you say that if someone turns away from God, it proves that they were never saved....well, by your position, you must also admit two things:

1. Bearing fruit apart from Jesus is possible, when He said such was impossible (John 15:5)

2. No believer can have any sort of assurance of salvation, because how do you know that, if you ever turn away, you were ever saved in the first place?

So....Jake....Wayne......are you saved ?  or is that something you don't know right now?

Because...from your stances...it is possible for you to turn away, and be lost!

It is not my stance, but from the Bible:

Hebrews 3:12-14

See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.  But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.  We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

A few things come to mind from this passage.

1. Brothers (Christians) were exhorted to not turn away from God.

2. Salvation is conditional upon holding firmly our confidence until the end.

Not to create anger...but I ask this to get you to face the "stance' you take, and face it bluntly!

No problems here!

[Jedi4Yahweh]

It';s certainly as clear as the nose on the face of Pinocchio that one can be saved only as many times as Jesus Christ died on the cross. If a person ciould be lost again after he's saved, he coukld never be saved again unless Jesus would return and die a second time, or a third time, or a fourth time in that the FIRST crucifixion of the saviour was totally IN SUFFICENT to guarantee everlasting salvation.

The question is not how many times can you be saved but how many times can you be forgiven? What does the bible say about how many times you can be forgiven? One part of Salvation means forgiveness of past sins if we confess and repent. How often do you need forgiveness of sins? I dont know about you but I need Gods salvation all the time to recue me from sin and self. I guess you could say I get saved all the time. Amen

Our salvation is not complete until the day we depart and stand before God? We need Gods salvation every day to keep us free from sin and temptation and demonic oppression and forgiveness if we do sin. Salvation does not just mean saved from hell but saved from sin, saved from sickness, saved from demonic bondage and oppression, saved from troubles, etc.. We need Gods salvation everyday to be overcomers. Salvation incorporates forgiveness and mercy. We need Gods mercy and forgiveness all the time not just one time. Salvation comes from having strong faith in God everyday, it's not just a one time experiance.

Do a study on God's salvation and you will see that it has more to do with being saved from sin more then being saved from hell? Are you saved from sin or just the results of sin? My question is have you been saved from sin? If you continue in sin, have you really experianced Gods full salvation?

We need God's salvation everyday which comes by having strong faith in God which comes from having a trusting relationship with him to get us to the promised land.

The bibles says the Jesus came to save us from sin. (Period) So whatz your definition of salvation and do you need it everyday or is is just a one time experiance?

[His son]

Quote:

What do you rely upon to "keep" you in Christ?

The Bible as interpreted to me by The Holy Spirit who reveals on a step by step basis as needed in my pilgrimage which Scriptures deal with the freewill choices I need to make to stay on that straight way that leads to the narrow gate.

[angels4u]

You said:My question is have you be saved and delivered from sin? If you continue in sin, have you really experianced Gods full salvation?

Exactly , how can a true born again child of God want to continue in sin? And how many times does God forgives us

ALWAYS RIGHT UNTO THE END!

WE WILL GET OUR REWARDS FOR OUR WORKS DONE ON THIS EARTH FOR JESUS, BUT WE WILL NOT LOSE OUR SALVATION UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCIS.

AND AFTER THAT THE JUDGEMENT WILL COME FOR THE UNBELIEVER.

I entered my rest in Jesus did you? :sleep:

Angels.

[BlindSeeker]

Amen endure4salvation, Jedi4Yahweh and His son. You all save me time in answering my sentiments.

Peace,

William

[endure4salvation]

Amen endure4salvation, Jedi4Yahweh and His son. You all save me time in answering my sentiments.

Peace,

William

Yea, it amazes me that even though OSAS/UES/POS was not taught for 1,500 years it is now somehow proven fact.

The only place you will find it in the Bible is in Genesis 3:4 where Satan told Eve that sin wouldn't lead to spiritual death, thereby making OSAS/UES/POS a doctrine of demons, as refered to in 1 Peter 4:1.