Embryonic Stem-Cell Research

[methinkshe]

In YOUR opinion. Others such as myself find it morally bankrupt not to pursue this research with the left-over MICROSCOPIC embryos that are already created and being destroyed now. Those who oppose, imo, do not value human-life at all; instead they value ideology over human life. You don't need a microscope to see children and adults dying in hospitals and at home across this country...or the ones who are suffering; children and adults who have completed the journey to personhood but whose very lives are devalued by those who stand in the way of possible cures.

Emotional appeal = logical fallacy.

The size of these little humans doesn't matter. They are still human.

Amen. Unique, too. Unrepeatable human beings. Remember, if you have a child (No.1) and are then unfortunate enough to follow that child with a miscarried baby (No.2) the next child (No.3) is not a carbon copy replacement of the lost No. 2 child who is gone forever. It is a completely different individual. What society so easily refers to as "embryos" are embryonic, unique, unrepeatable individuals. Just try thinking of them as one of your children forever missing (if you are a parent, you will understand.) How DARE WE experiment on these embryonic people. God forgive us. I am sure we shall meet all these unique little people in heaven. Even if they were not known to us, they are known to and by God who "knit me together in my mother's womb."

Ruth

[Hypathia]

In YOUR opinion. Others such as myself find it morally bankrupt not to pursue this research with the left-over MICROSCOPIC embryos that are already created and being destroyed now. Those who oppose, imo, do not value human-life at all; instead they value ideology over human life. You don't need a microscope to see children and adults dying in hospitals and at home across this country...or the ones who are suffering; children and adults who have completed the journey to personhood but whose very lives are devalued by those who stand in the way of possible cures.

Emotional appeal = logical fallacy.

The size of these little humans doesn't matter. They are still human.

Amen. Unique, too. Unrepeatable human beings. Remember, if you have a child (No.1) and are then unfortunate enough to follow that child with a miscarried baby (No.2) the next child (No.3) is not a carbon copy replacement of the lost No. 2 child who is gone forever. It is a completely different individual. What society so easily refers to as "embryos" are embryonic, unique, unrepeatable individuals. Just try thinking of them as one of your children forever missing (if you are a parent, you will understand.) How DARE WE experiment on these embryonic people. God forgive us. I am sure we shall meet all these unique little people in heaven. Even if they were not known to us, they are known to and by God who "knit me together in my mother's womb."

Ruth

Not all embryos finish the journey to personhood even under the best of circumstances; some things are not meant to be biologically or spiritually. Your emotional appeal there is based on idealogy and not reality or the bible. As I said before, miguided empathy.

God forgive you for the blood and suffering you have on your hands if it turns out that your efforts to thwart cures holds up this reasearch; which could cost many children...and adults their lives during the interim. The suffering and grief of their parents is will also be on your head.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Hypathia

[apothanein kerdos]

In YOUR opinion. Others such as myself find it morally bankrupt not to pursue this research with the left-over MICROSCOPIC embryos that are already created and being destroyed now. Those who oppose, imo, do not value human-life at all; instead they value ideology over human life. You don't need a microscope to see children and adults dying in hospitals and at home across this country...or the ones who are suffering; children and adults who have completed the journey to personhood but whose very lives are devalued by those who stand in the way of possible cures.

Emotional appeal = logical fallacy.

The size of these little humans doesn't matter. They are still human.

The overwhelming number of verses on the subject disagree with you. Those who oppose also use emotional appeals for "potential life"; that which feels no emotion; that which knows nothing. The embryos in question have no womb, no blood, and no breath which are clear biblical components for human life. Your empathy is misplaced both biblically and ethically. Your emotion; your empathy, should be with those who do live but could die; those who suffer because they do feel emotion and pain. It's cruel and inhumane to devalue these REAL people in favor of idealogy that doesn't even line up with the scriptures themselves.

What verses disagree?

The passages that say God knew us before we were formed in the womb? This, of course, is meant to talk about God's foreknowledge. However, it shows how God views life - the moment we are conceived, we are human.

Again, you keep using an emotional appeal. This shows me you haven't thought about this issue. You're relying on emotional hype instead of actual intelligent arguments...which is typical of those who support Nazi ideology. It's how Hitler was able to get the entire nation to turn against the Jews.

[methinkshe]

In YOUR opinion. Others such as myself find it morally bankrupt not to pursue this research with the left-over MICROSCOPIC embryos that are already created and being destroyed now. Those who oppose, imo, do not value human-life at all; instead they value ideology over human life. You don't need a microscope to see children and adults dying in hospitals and at home across this country...or the ones who are suffering; children and adults who have completed the journey to personhood but whose very lives are devalued by those who stand in the way of possible cures.

Emotional appeal = logical fallacy.

The size of these little humans doesn't matter. They are still human.

Amen. Unique, too. Unrepeatable human beings. Remember, if you have a child (No.1) and are then unfortunate enough to follow that child with a miscarried baby (No.2) the next child (No.3) is not a carbon copy replacement of the lost No. 2 child who is gone forever. It is a completely different individual. What society so easily refers to as "embryos" are embryonic, unique, unrepeatable individuals. Just try thinking of them as one of your children forever missing (if you are a parent, you will understand.) How DARE WE experiment on these embryonic people. God forgive us. I am sure we shall meet all these unique little people in heaven. Even if they were not known to us, they are known to and by God who "knit me together in my mother's womb."

Ruth

Not all embryos finish the journey to personhood even under the best of circumstances; some things are not meant to be biologically or spiritually. Your emotional appeal there is based on idealogy and not reality or the bible. As I said before, miguided empathy.

God forgive you for the blood and suffering you have on your hands if it turns out that your efforts to thwart cures holds up this reasearch; which could cost many children...and adults their lives during the interim. The suffering and grief of their parents is will also be on your head.

As the mother of an 11 yr old child with profound learning and physical disabilities I could NEVER sanction embryonic stem cell research to aid a cure for her disabilitiy. Strange as it may sound to you, she is delightful and a blessing to our family just the way she is. Of course, I would have preferred that she never suffered the brain damage when she was just a few months old that caused her current condition But God has worked all things together for good so that I am not desperate for a cure. All I ever pray concerning her healing is: if thou wilst, thou canst. Meanwhile, I cannot even begin to describe what a positive benefit she has been to our family, in spite of the extra work that caring for her has entailed. Moreover she is the most blessed, lovely, innocent, inheritor of the kingdom of Jesus that one could hope to meet. "Unless ye come as a little child.........."

[Hypathia]

In YOUR opinion. Others such as myself find it morally bankrupt not to pursue this research with the left-over MICROSCOPIC embryos that are already created and being destroyed now. Those who oppose, imo, do not value human-life at all; instead they value ideology over human life. You don't need a microscope to see children and adults dying in hospitals and at home across this country...or the ones who are suffering; children and adults who have completed the journey to personhood but whose very lives are devalued by those who stand in the way of possible cures.

Emotional appeal = logical fallacy.

The size of these little humans doesn't matter. They are still human.

The overwhelming number of verses on the subject disagree with you. Those who oppose also use emotional appeals for "potential life"; that which feels no emotion; that which knows nothing. The embryos in question have no womb, no blood, and no breath which are clear biblical components for human life. Your empathy is misplaced both biblically and ethically. Your emotion; your empathy, should be with those who do live but could die; those who suffer because they do feel emotion and pain. It's cruel and inhumane to devalue these REAL people in favor of idealogy that doesn't even line up with the scriptures themselves.

What verses disagree?

The passages that say God knew us before we were formed in the womb? This, of course, is meant to talk about God's foreknowledge. However, it shows how God views life - the moment we are conceived, we are human.

Again, you keep using an emotional appeal. This shows me you haven't thought about this issue. You're relying on emotional hype instead of actual intelligent arguments...which is typical of those who support Nazi ideology. It's how Hitler was able to get the entire nation to turn against the Jews.

My emotional appeals are based on reality; not idealogy. -- "Nazi", now that word is a negative appeal to emotion. Did you know that the Jews support embryonic stem-cell research; they certainly do not see it as "nazism" and they asked for an apology from James Dobson when he tried to make the same comparison.

I have read ALL the verses many times; I've thought about them; I've prayed about them. You have free-will, you can choose to belive what James Dobson and the Pope tell you.... or you can follow ALL of God's word on the subject.

I suggest you read all the verses, ponder them and pray about it.

[Hypathia]

In YOUR opinion. Others such as myself find it morally bankrupt not to pursue this research with the left-over MICROSCOPIC embryos that are already created and being destroyed now. Those who oppose, imo, do not value human-life at all; instead they value ideology over human life. You don't need a microscope to see children and adults dying in hospitals and at home across this country...or the ones who are suffering; children and adults who have completed the journey to personhood but whose very lives are devalued by those who stand in the way of possible cures.

Emotional appeal = logical fallacy.

The size of these little humans doesn't matter. They are still human.

The overwhelming number of verses on the subject disagree with you. Those who oppose also use emotional appeals for "potential life"; that which feels no emotion; that which knows nothing. The embryos in question have no womb, no blood, and no breath which are clear biblical components for human life. Your empathy is misplaced both biblically and ethically. Your emotion; your empathy, should be with those who do live but could die; those who suffer because they do feel emotion and pain. It's cruel and inhumane to devalue these REAL people in favor of idealogy that doesn't even line up with the scriptures themselves.

What verses disagree?

The passages that say God knew us before we were formed in the womb? This, of course, is meant to talk about God's foreknowledge. However, it shows how God views life - the moment we are conceived, we are human.

Again, you keep using an emotional appeal. This shows me you haven't thought about this issue. You're relying on emotional hype instead of actual intelligent arguments...which is typical of those who support Nazi ideology. It's how Hitler was able to get the entire nation to turn against the Jews.

My emotional appeals are based on reality; not idealogy. -- "Nazi", now that word is a negative appeal to emotion. Did you know that the Jews support embryonic stem-cell research; they certainly do not see it as "nazism" and they asked for an apology from James Dobson when he tried to make the same comparison.

I have read ALL the verses many times; I've thought about them; I've prayed about them. You have free-will, you can choose to belive what James Dobson and the Pope tell you.... or you can follow ALL of God's word on the subject.

I suggest you read all the verses, ponder them and pray about it.

[apothanein kerdos]

In YOUR opinion. Others such as myself find it morally bankrupt not to pursue this research with the left-over MICROSCOPIC embryos that are already created and being destroyed now. Those who oppose, imo, do not value human-life at all; instead they value ideology over human life. You don't need a microscope to see children and adults dying in hospitals and at home across this country...or the ones who are suffering; children and adults who have completed the journey to personhood but whose very lives are devalued by those who stand in the way of possible cures.

Emotional appeal = logical fallacy.

The size of these little humans doesn't matter. They are still human.

The overwhelming number of verses on the subject disagree with you. Those who oppose also use emotional appeals for "potential life"; that which feels no emotion; that which knows nothing. The embryos in question have no womb, no blood, and no breath which are clear biblical components for human life. Your empathy is misplaced both biblically and ethically. Your emotion; your empathy, should be with those who do live but could die; those who suffer because they do feel emotion and pain. It's cruel and inhumane to devalue these REAL people in favor of idealogy that doesn't even line up with the scriptures themselves.

What verses disagree?

The passages that say God knew us before we were formed in the womb? This, of course, is meant to talk about God's foreknowledge. However, it shows how God views life - the moment we are conceived, we are human.

Again, you keep using an emotional appeal. This shows me you haven't thought about this issue. You're relying on emotional hype instead of actual intelligent arguments...which is typical of those who support Nazi ideology. It's how Hitler was able to get the entire nation to turn against the Jews.

My emotional appeals are based on reality; not idealogy. -- "Nazi", now that word is a negative appeal to emotion. Did you know that the Jews support embryonic stem-cell research; they certainly do not see it as "nazism" and they asked for an apology from James Dobson when he tried to make the same comparison.

I have read ALL the verses many times; I've thought about them; I've prayed about them. You have free-will, you can choose to belive what James Dobson and the Pope tell you.... or you can follow ALL of God's word on the subject.

I suggest you read all the verses, ponder them and pray about it.

I'm Jewish mate, and I don't support it. It is akin to Nazi ideology.

No where in there did you really respond to what I had to say. I pointed out how that passage of scripture supports the idea that the moment the egg is fertilized, a human life exists.

[Hypathia]

In YOUR opinion. Others such as myself find it morally bankrupt not to pursue this research with the left-over MICROSCOPIC embryos that are already created and being destroyed now. Those who oppose, imo, do not value human-life at all; instead they value ideology over human life. You don't need a microscope to see children and adults dying in hospitals and at home across this country...or the ones who are suffering; children and adults who have completed the journey to personhood but whose very lives are devalued by those who stand in the way of possible cures.

Emotional appeal = logical fallacy.

The size of these little humans doesn't matter. They are still human.

Amen. Unique, too. Unrepeatable human beings. Remember, if you have a child (No.1) and are then unfortunate enough to follow that child with a miscarried baby (No.2) the next child (No.3) is not a carbon copy replacement of the lost No. 2 child who is gone forever. It is a completely different individual. What society so easily refers to as "embryos" are embryonic, unique, unrepeatable individuals. Just try thinking of them as one of your children forever missing (if you are a parent, you will understand.) How DARE WE experiment on these embryonic people. God forgive us. I am sure we shall meet all these unique little people in heaven. Even if they were not known to us, they are known to and by God who "knit me together in my mother's womb."

Ruth

Not all embryos finish the journey to personhood even under the best of circumstances; some things are not meant to be biologically or spiritually. Your emotional appeal there is based on idealogy and not reality or the bible. As I said before, miguided empathy.

God forgive you for the blood and suffering you have on your hands if it turns out that your efforts to thwart cures holds up this reasearch; which could cost many children...and adults their lives during the interim. The suffering and grief of their parents is will also be on your head.

As the mother of an 11 yr old child with profound learning and physical disabilities I could NEVER sanction embryonic stem cell research to aid a cure for her disabilitiy. Strange as it may sound to you, she is delightful and a blessing to our family just the way she is. Of course, I would have preferred that she never suffered the brain damage when she was just a few months old that caused her current condition But God has worked all things together for good so that I am not desperate for a cure. All I ever pray concerning her healing is: if thou wilst, thou canst. Meanwhile, I cannot even begin to describe what a positive benefit she has been to our family, in spite of the extra work that caring for her has entailed. Moreover she is the most blessed, lovely, innocent, inheritor of the kingdom of Jesus that one could hope to meet. "Unless ye come as a little child.........."

That is entirely your choice to make. It is not your choice to make for other parents; other people.

If and when cures for diseases and injuries are found through embryonic-stem-cell research I think those who oppose today should most definitely refuse those treatments and cures if and when they need them. But my guess is like "test tube babies" [invitro fertilization] they'll have a change of heart.

apothenian - You speak as one; not for the whole group.

[apothanein kerdos]

apothenian - You speak as one; not for the whole group.

And you're still relying on emotional appeal. You aren't dealing with the Hebraic idea of "in the womb" means.

[Hypathia]

Let's all rely on the sum of God's word in this area.

Conception

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Ruth 4:13 So Boaz took Ruth, and she was his wife: and when he went in unto her, the LORD gave her conception, and she bare a son.

Hosiah 9:11 [As for] Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth, and from the womb, and from the conception.

Breath

Genesis 2:7 then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Genesis 6:17 For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall die.

Genesis 7:15 They went into the ark with Noah, two and two of all flesh in which there was the breath of life.

Genesis 7:22 everything on the dry land in whose nostrils was the breath of life died.

1 Kings 17:17 After this the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, became ill; and his illness was so severe that there was no breath left in him.

18: And she said to Eli'jah, "What have you against me, O man of God? You have come to me to bring my sin to remembrance, and to cause the death of my son!"

Job 27: 2: "As God lives, who has taken away my right, and the Almighty, who has made my soul bitter;

3: as long as my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

Job 33:4 The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Psalms 146:4 When his breath departs he returns to his earth; on that very day his plans perish.

Psalms 150:6 Let everything that breathes praise the LORD! Praise the LORD!

Ecc 3: 19: For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity.

20: All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.

21: Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down to the earth?

Isaiah 2: 22 Turn away from man in whose nostrils is breath, for of what account is he?

Isaiah 42: 5 Thus says God, the LORD, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread forth the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people upon it and spirit to those who walk in it:

Ezekiel 37:5 Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. 6: And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the LORD." 7: So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold, a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to its bone.

8: And as I looked, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them; but there was no breath in them. [there