Methods of deliverance

[Karen C.]

:a: Steve...

I do believe Paul is referring to those who are knowledgeable in the Christian walk. Ephesian Christians. How we KEEP ourselves from the enemy once we have come into the saving knowledge of the Gospel.

To those being delivered is a different matter... Don't ya thinK?

Jesus though so... Most of their deliverance, healings, lead to salvation?

Peace in Him, Karen

[The Journey]

Karen,

 Ok.  But you look in these "deliverance" books and teachings and you find a lot of "Believe me, because the Lord told me this" type of proofs.  Woven together with some poor exegesis and you get a whole new branch of ministry.  I am suspicious because I think this is exactly the type of subtle deception that satan loves.  Close to the truth and using lots of biblical words but way off from the actual state of affairs.

- Steve

[Guest Boron]

Biscuit, how does Linda relate to the reading of Acts 16:16-18?

[OneAccord]

The demonic realm has not went away, quiet the contrary to human reasoning satan and his demonic principalities and powers are still active.

It is the SAME demons that have always been here. The church has become a country club instead of proclaiming victory in the name of Jesus against satan and his principalities and powers.

rude awakening on the horizon.

[Karen C.]

Mark 16:14

14Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

19After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

If we can get through our flesh and begin to walk in faith, signs and wonders do follow.. It takes a made up mind that you want more of Jesus and His Kingdom than this place.

I have been used of the Lord in healings and two delivered from demonic torment and signs of confirmation by preaching the Gospel... many times that those I had witnessed to accused me of conferring with the preacher because the topic was EXACTLY what I had been witnessing to them about... I mean exact scritpure reference.. YES, the Lord is the same today as He was back then.. we have become unbelieving... that is why no one is witnessing miracles, signs and wonders. It takes more than a week end warrior to proclaim the Kingdom of God. You have to get in with the Lord and know Him...

Yes, there are some rather strange proceedures being done in deliverance. Smith Wigglesworth used to punch them devils out. He had no reguard for method. People were delivered. I believe he was a man used of God.

Matt 12:22-30

22Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"

24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."

25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

29"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.

30"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.

I don't believe there is a method described in deliverance. CAST is a forceful word though. ??

In Christ and set free, Karen

:il:

[The Journey]

Karen,

[Guest shadow2b]

Steve..as long as we don't confront the spiritual realm for what it truly is, we never truly comprehend what we are really seeking deliverance from!!!

I can only imagine the "evil" plans the devil has set up before us. Of how many times the Lord (restraining power) has overthrown satans attempts to steal, kill, and destroy us.

satan is out to keep us in the dark about his mode of operation. I no longer look at the world through rose colored glasses.

Once the veil has been removed you have to make a decision on "what you choose to believe"...

I found this to be a pretty good explaination of our "real battle zone"!

The earth which was made an habitation for man (Gen. 1:26. Isa. 45:18) has now become the abode of Satan and his demon host. Instead of man having dominion over the earth as intended by God, Satan has become the world's unseen ruler. Satan, called the god of this world by Paul (II Cor. 4:4) and prince of this world by Jesus (John 14:30) is indeed the head of this whole world system.

Behind the governments of the world, including the political and religious systems, are the unseen rulers of darkness headed up by Lucifer. There is not a government or political or religious philosophy in the world that has not been corrupted by Satan. In fact many of them are his inventions from start to finish to lead men astray. Though we look upon and blame human personalities behind these systems, the real enemy is Satan and his demon host.

Ephesians 6:12 says, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." The amplified translation states it thusly: "For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood -- contending only with physical opponents -- but against the despotisms, against the powers, against (the master spirits who are) the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere." Moffatt's translation is also interesting. "For we have to struggle, not with blood and flesh but with the angelic authorities, the potentates of the dark present, the spirit forces of evil in the heavenly sphere."

From these translations, we learn that our real enemy is not man but forces of evil, called powers, principalities, master spirits, world rulers, spirit forces, angelic rulers, angelic authorities and potentates. These are all living and operating from the supernatural invisible realm of darkness. Webster defines the word "principality" as a prince of a territory. It is evident from these scriptures that Satan's kingdom has many fallen angelic spirits of a very high order, called world rulers, master spirits, and princes over vast territories.

We are prone to think of Satan's emissaries as living only in a disembodied state, hovering around in space and whispering evil into our ears. It is true, there are literally billions of evil spirits living in the atmosphere around the earth, tempting, deceiving, harassing, and vexing mankind. But the devils that we need most to be on the alert for are those who are trying to influence us through man. This is where Satan through his demon host does his greatest damage in leading men to ruin. As folks used to say when I was a little boy, "the devils you need to watch out for are the two-legged ones."

Though we do not wish to minimize the need for guarding our minds against the enemy that whispers in our ears, we must also be on the alert against him deceiving us through man. This type of deception may be on a much higher plane, but it is just as destructive and can lead into a morass of spiritual and moral corruption that brings forth death.

Demons' greatest work of deception and evil is accomplished as they project themselves through the life and personality of the person they indwell. Their evil spirit nature is actually imparted or ministered in this manner, even as God's spirit of rightousness and life is ministered to man through human vessels. As the word of God is the vehicle or means through which God enters a human life; Satan's word, the lie, is the means used to enter and destroy man.

Religious, political, or philosophical delusion is actually the worst type of demon possession. First of all it is not considered demon possession because those possessed are otherwise normal and sane. The only abnormality recognized by the world is extreme insanity that requires a padded cell.

Demon possession that causes the victim to beat his head against a wall is minor in comparison. There is actually more hope for one obviously demented than for demon deluded people who are considered perfectly sane.

SATAN'S GOSPEL

Once men have received a religious, political, or philosophical spirit (demon) they are positive they have the answer to the world's problems. Rather than feeling any pain or need for themselves they are convinced it is the other fellow who needs conversion. All deluded people are absolutely sure they are right; otherwise they wouldn't be deluded.

Satan's kingdom gospel is being faithfully proclaimed by such demon anointed preachers, philosophers, teachers, political figures, and just plain witnesses. It is believed in far more than the true gospel of Jesus Christ. It consists of any religion, political belief, philosophy, or way of life apart from God's eternal plan and purpose through his only begotten Son Jesus Christ. It is in this manner that evil angelic beings of great power and authority sway and influence mighty nations.

In Christ, Karen :a2:

heyyyyyyy karenC----weLLLLL,ya-know- the INtellectuals-I.E.--lawyers,college professors,educators[some??] doctors tend to {lean to their OWN UNDERstanding} & pHoo-Phooo--

the spiritual realm--& DEmonic oppression--possession---

uhhhhhh?? just to give biscuit & others [some] info.on personal EXperience & EYE-witness accounts of DEmonic-possession-i.e.-DEliverence----Eye-witness accounts[just as Eye-witness accounts to traffic wrecks] SHouldNOT be DIScounted--they[eye-witnesses] were there at the time & their account of WHAT happened is legal ,valid & are  used in courts & accepted by judges,lawyers,juries as FACtual---That

being said--these two accounts of DEmonoc POssession,one

DEliverance, the other was just manifested, But didNOT leave

the one POssessed....These two accounts were Witnessed by #1- three--3 witnesses,the other #2- 4-witnesses---#1--

was the deliverence of my wife Patsy from DEmonic----- possession----I gave this account on another thread as our salvation EXperience--SOoooo some already know it--BUT i think this could help biscuit & his wife--Hopefully---aNy hoW--

my niece had been saved for a little while & was pesTerinG us

to go to church with her [night & day -day & night] persistent

little cuss---she was going to a little church that was just beginning--maybe 12 members--anyhow we FinallY we agreed to go on passover[easter-yuchhhh--hate this perversion] so we,Patsy, me,our 2 children,two friends & their 3 children all went to church--very loud preacher--at the end of the service -"they" started a prayer  & this one elderly lady started to say{ tat-a-tat-tatt-a-tatt] which IMMediately made me sooooo mad[as i thought it was fake--I have since REvised my Opinion--after salvation & MUCH teaching] anYHow WE all LEft in a hurry-----any way Patsy & our two friends[ several nights later] went to Dallas to see the movie--

[ the EXorcist] SCARED THE LITERAl He## out of me-didNOT bother anyone else tho---[i was 33 yrs.old at the time Patsy was 31--] any how for a solid week i turned ALL the lights in the house on & read[but didNOT understand] the BIBLE, all night till day light, then i would go to sleep---Yeah i know--BIG coWard-- ---[meanwhile back at the ranch] for years i wouldNOT look Patsy directly in the eyes---I had ONCE

seen skull-heads coming from deep in her eyes---Patsy & my niece[now saved but not then] would hold seances IN the bedroom,ME the BIG coWard would go nextdoor till they had concluded their seance & ouige[sp?] board readings---just before we had come home to TEXAS, i had been working on an exxon refinery EXpansion in Joliet ILLinois--While there Patsy had been invited to JOIN a witches coven the next Friday & i had DEcided to go home on wednesday or thursday & we left before she could join this coven{praise the LORD]--

I EXplained all this just to show where we had been & what we were involved in, in order for you all to understand DEmonic possession & deliverence----After a week of this lights all on all night & my reading the BIBLE all night, Patsy asked me WHY the sudden interest in the BIBLE & the lights on all night-----WeLLL- i told her that the movie had scared the HE## out of me & i didNOT know what to do....She EXplained her sudden Fear & HATRED of the church & the preacher, as well as just a violent hatred for everyone---Sooo

I called this preacher at home & asked him if he could come over--which he did----WeLLLLL, Patsy told of her INvolvement in the occult, seances--ouige boards-that would jump up to meet her hand[watchOUT skeptics--"IF" you AIN'T been there done i.e. seen that--shutUP!!]---invited to join a witches coven,the hatred-FEAR--he EXplained WE had to REnounce this occult practice & ask the LORD-JESUS-YESHUA-

to forgive us & be OUR LORD & SAVIOUR---& that he believed that Patsy was DEmon POssessed & this demon had to be cast-out---Soooo--HE asked Patsy "IF" JESUS CHRIST had come in the FLESH & was HE the SON OF GOD?? this little pitiful-girlish-voice[her natural voice] said a ver week --yessss

--HE then looked Patsy in the eyes & said Patsy I'M NOT talking to you -I'm talking to the spirit in you--& as usual this preachers voice began to BOOOOOOOmmmmmm--"HAS JESUS CHRIST COME IN THE FLESH & IS HE THE SON OF GOD??"--

WeLLLLL, after the second or third time he said this--ALL at

once PAtsy's FACE blewUP to several times more than normal,the white in her eyes turned blood-red & every vein in her face,neck & eyes blewUP to several times more than normal & this very MALE,gutteral, vile sounding voice[i don't know how to EXpress this any other way] came OUT of this  

little girl-"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!----SCARED the HE## out of me Again---then this vile male voice said"I HAVE A RIGHT TO BE HERE!!!!!!}then Richard commanded this demon " IN THE NAME OF JESUS-CHRIST OF NAZARETH I COMMAND YOU TO COME OUT OF HER!!!!"---HE finally came out after 2 or three times of this command--When this demon came out Patsy's head,face,neck went back to normal size & the veins went back to normal,the red in her eyes went back to white & she just sort-a collapsed  back into the couch----

ALL the while Richard was dealing with this demon & after it was "CASTOUT" I fell on my knees with TEARS the size of silver dollars running down my face[how i knew they were the size of silver dollars i don't know I just knew} & I cried OUT "LORD SAVE US BOTH !!!!"---HE did-----NOW for all the skeptics-know-it-alls-intellectuals--- i say once again [ "IF" you AIN'T been there done[seen] that--SHUTUP---you DON'T know what you're talking about & just as eye-witnesses to car-wrecks,they're account is legal,valid & binding, A christian's account of what they[we] have seen & EXperienced

should be accepted as valid & actually happened-------

biscuit bro. you should get some prayer warriors that KNOW how to touch GOD with prayer & get someone that has EXperience in delivering someone from DEmonic possession, &

the BLOOD of JESUS should be used IN song,prayer OR the one dealing with your wife---get someone [not a flake that says the devil can be cast out as a gob of spit or some other flakey thing]the one that is to cast out the demons "MUST"

be SPIRIT-FILLED--SOooo be wise & choose wisely-- ask the LORD to send the EXact person that is needed for your wife's DEliverence & the EXact ANOINTED prayer warriors--& ANOINTED singers-praisers-worshippers??----I don't know what else to tell you biscuit,karenC, I just {KNOW} what happened to us & how GOD sent the right person to us--[you can DIScount--phoo-phoo-away--INtellectualize or just {LAUGH this all away] bUT as an EYE-witness I tell you of a TRUTH & all sincerity,these events transpired EXactly as stated----your brother in the LORD---------{Gary} Patsy has the [other side of this from her point or perspective] GOD-BLESS-YOU-ALL-----

[The Journey]

Shadow,

  I never said that the demonic does not exist.  Karen assumed that I did not believe they existed.  I have been involved with exorcisms and confront more evil on the front lines in the ER on a weekley basis than I care to recount.  My point is that satan is empowered when we give him too much credit.  If you see the devil everywhere then your eyes are focused on the wrong god.   Every bad event is not caused by the devil.  Bad things happen because we live in a fallen world.

- Dr. Steve

PS  Your post was a broad generalization that bears false witness against many doctors, lawyers, and "intellectuals" that are born again and believe the Word.

[Guest shadow2b]

Shadow,

[brontosaurus]

I have not read the endless pages here so forgive me if I re-state anything someone said before.

I want to answer Biscuits original questions.

Yes, demons can be cast out in an instant, and it need not take hours of struggle.  

Yes, the difference is the amount of faith.  

Yes, Jesus did this in an istant because He was Jesus.  

Yes - we can do this too - though the world waits for someone to believe it - Jesus said, "Even greater things than these will you do because I am going to the Father."

As for the naming of Spirits... it is interresting that Jesus didn't even claim to name any names... He actually demanded that the demon tell him that info: "What is your name?"  

I believe we approach demons NOT by some code or theory or magic words or set of rules.

We approach them like John Wayne.  That's how Jesus did it.  Total confidence - even annoyance at the pesky varmints that would seek to cause infirmity.  

That's how Smith Wigglesworth used to pray for people's healing - it only took a sentence and then often he would angrily strike the person - but they would always get healed that instant!  No preacher today will physically hit a human because no one today has the kind of confidence in Jesus' ability to heal that Smith did.  

It is usually fear that makes the "deliverance" process take longer - though it may still work.