Are the scriptures self-sufficient?

[Metropolitan]

I have been amongst those who side with the doctrine of Sola Scriptura(Scriptures alone)...But then, I dont know much when it comes to the doctrine of Sola Dei Verbum (Only the Word of God)

How do we, as Christians view the 2 doctrines?

Were the scriptures truly self-suffiecent? In that case, what do we really mean by apostolic traditions , that Paul talks about in 2 Thessalonians

"So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter". (2 Thessalonians 2:15)

Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith...Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you. (Hebrews 13:7,17)

How do we view the above verses?

What do we mean by the "spoken Word of God"? Has anyone recorded them down? or passed on to church leaders by the early church fathers?

I wish to get some clarity regarding these!

God Bless!

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

Good questions!! Like you I'll be watching for some wise responses.

[gypc]

"So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter". (2 Thessalonians 2:15)

Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith...Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you. (Hebrews 13:7,17)

You ask a great question. The answer is that the 66 books of the Bible we now have are suffiecent but was not available yet when Paul said this. The traditions that he was talking about came by spoken word or letter. It is the letters they wrote that we now consider scripture. The word of God is enough and should be veiwed as such. Everything we hear from preachers, teachers and so on should always line up with scripture. If a tradition that has been handed down through the years does not line up with scripture, it should be counted as trash.

[Yahsway]

What do we mean by the "spoken word of God?"

1 Corinthians 15:3 Paul says this

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also recieved: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures.

What "Scriptures" did they have at that time? Not letters written but Scriptures.

Ps 2:7, 16:10, 61:7 68:18 102:25-27 110:1 Is. 25:8 26:19 53:10-12 Dan. 12:2 Hos 6:2 13:14

[exrockstar]

I have been amongst those who side with the doctrine of Sola Scriptura(Scriptures alone)...But then, I dont know much when it comes to the doctrine of Sola Dei Verbum (Only the Word of God)

How do we, as Christians view the 2 doctrines?

Were the scriptures truly self-suffiecent? In that case, what do we really mean by apostolic traditions , that Paul talks about in 2 Thessalonians

"So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter". (2 Thessalonians 2:15)

Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith...Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you. (Hebrews 13:7,17)

How do we view the above verses?

What do we mean by the "spoken Word of God"? Has anyone recorded them down? or passed on to church leaders by the early church fathers?

I wish to get some clarity regarding these!

God Bless!

actually our minds automatically think that the word "tradition" is an act of doing something.

it just means a handing down of information, statements or beliefs.

If one isn't sure what "traditions" he was talking about then you have to do a process of illimination.

You don't see a "rituals" happening in any section of the New Testament.

Plus the book of Romans gets rid of the process of "works" so it can't point to keeping "works in worship."

People follow the crowd. What else can one say? ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[CaritateDei]

We also do not see the Doctrine of Sola Scriptura or Sola Dei Verbum anywhere in Scriptura or in the Dei Verbum.

[CaritateDei]

I have been amongst those who side with the doctrine of Sola Scriptura(Scriptures alone)...But then, I dont know much when it comes to the doctrine of Sola Dei Verbum (Only the Word of God)

How do we, as Christians view the 2 doctrines?

Were the scriptures truly self-suffiecent? In that case, what do we really mean by apostolic traditions , that Paul talks about in 2 Thessalonians

"So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter". (2 Thessalonians 2:15)

Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith...Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you. (Hebrews 13:7,17)

How do we view the above verses?

What do we mean by the "spoken Word of God"? Has anyone recorded them down? or passed on to church leaders by the early church fathers?

I wish to get some clarity regarding these!

God Bless!

actually our minds automatically think that the word "tradition" is an act of doing something.

it just means a handing down of information, statements or beliefs.

If one isn't sure what "traditions" he was talking about then you have to do a process of illimination.

You don't see a "rituals" happening in any section of the New Testament.

Plus the book of Romans gets rid of the process of "works" so it can't point to keeping "works in worship."

People follow the crowd. What else can one say? ... 3xR0c|<stAr

Pauls letter to Romans gets rid of works? Does Paul contradict himself? Philippians 2:12ff?

Tradition. 1 Corinthians chapter 11, tells of how we should hold fast to the traditions HE hands ddown and tells us how to go about the RITUALS. We don't see rituals in the New Testament? No works in Worship? Come now...let's not take out parts of the bible...

[Metropolitan]

"So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter". (2 Thessalonians 2:15)

Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith...Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you. (Hebrews 13:7,17)

You ask a great question. The answer is that the 66 books of the Bible we now have are suffiecent but was not available yet when Paul said this. The traditions that he was talking about came by spoken word or letter. It is the letters they wrote that we now consider scripture. The word of God is enough and should be veiwed as such. Everything we hear from preachers, teachers and so on should always line up with scripture. If a tradition that has been handed down through the years does not line up with scripture, it should be counted as trash.

Grace be to you , GYPC

I cannot say for sure, that every thing spoken by the apostles were recorded in the bible...Just as the Gospel writers admitted that not all miracles performed by Jesus was recorded in the Gospels(which was practically not posible according to them)..So cant there be an instance where-in some of those were handed down to the early chuch leaders maybe as tradions or church constitutions? Even Paul would be pleasantly surprised by now, that most of his letters are now recorded as scriptures...But somehow, Im not convinced that those were the only ones he ever wrote or said....I guess, you see my point!

[IslandRose]

This will not be allowed to turn into a Catholic apologetic.

[CaritateDei]

This will not be allowed to turn into a Catholic apologetic.

None of us were going there. You did, though.