Europe - Thy Name Is Cowardice

[Giaour]

Europe isn't perfect. Neither is America.

America murders millions of babies every year. America kills who knows how many innocents as part of their war on terror. America exploits 3rd world economies and slave labour in order to keep their economy growing. America neglects the environment in order to continue gaining industry.

America is a great place to live, so is Europe. America has great people, so does Europe.

Does anyone else see a pattern? Both are great places to live, both have flaws. Could we please stop bashing other countries (or continents in this case)? And if we really must, how about worrying about war and slavery in Africa, rather than thinking up all of Europe's past mistakes and laughing at them.

I do not mean to insult any Americans in this post, I just feel that I should point out that no country is perfect, not Europe and not America.

God Bless,

Keilan

An Italian author writes about Europe and you make it all about America?

There are 10 bash America topics on this board at any given day but I dont see you saying "I just feel that I should point out that no country is perfect, not Europe and not America." in all those threads.

This article isnt about America.

You did what the lefties constantly do when we speak of the Clintons.

They instantly make it all about Bush.Well, Bush did this and that.

Dont address the problems of the Clintons, just deflect the attention to someone else.

[Leonard]

Arash: For all their differences, what the leading nations of Europe have in common is COWARDICE, and a shameless trucling to Islam.

Our second President, John Adams was a Christian man of extraordinary mental abilities. After studying Glorious Koran and Islam well, he wrote that America ALONE would one day have to fight the entire Moslem world (He wrote that some 200 years ago!).

He said we would not be able to rely on Europe for help, because Europe would be too secular, cowardly, and morally weak to offer assistance.

Tell me John Adams was not prophetic!

[apothanein kerdos]

The problem with Europe is that it has been secularized. It has been this way for almost two hundred years, with it getting worse since World War II. Prior to World War II, the Enlightenment philosophy dominated Europe. Thus, man could know truth without God, and certain cultures were better than other cultures. Though this created an absense of God, it still instilled somewhat of a backbone into Europe. The only problem with the Enlightenment ethic is that it viewed European nations as civil and therefore not worthy of attack. This is what allowed Hitler into power.

The Enlightenment failed in Europe and in its place came post-modernism. The norm for Western Europe's political leaders is cultural and ethical relativism. Thus, if we consider something "wrong" the individual or community is not responsible for that wrong - instead, it is the circumstances that individual or community finds itself in. Thus, Muslims rioting in Paris is not a result of the ills of Islam, but instead is a result of how France has treated these people. The Muslims would not riot if they were treated better, so the theory goes.

Likewise, terrorists are only terrorists because of Western policies toward the Middle East. Going to war will only increase more terrorism and cause them to become more angry. If we back off and let them handle their own problems, they will eventually leave us alone.

This, of course, ignores the nature of Islam and even the quest of Islam to capture Europe since the 8th century. Muslims invaded Europe in 700AD and continued this invasion into European soil until the 1700's. When they stopped (thanks to the Ottoman Empire), it pacified Islam until World War I. Since then, Islam has been going back to its roots (what it did for 1,000 years)...yet due to the philosophy that dominates the European paradigm they ignore this. America is still wise enough to realize the faults in these other nations and attack them.

[KeilanS]

Spoken like a true pacifist. I don't recall anyone saying America is perfect.........but at least they don't strap bombs on their kids to blow up Israeli milk bar and cafes.

thanks for sharing that, Toni. Great piece of journalism.

I am definatly not a pacifist. Perhaps the war is even a good thing, I just don't think Americans should blindly support the war without considering that maybe parts of it are unneeded.

Hi Keilan,

You're right, no country/continent is perfect. No one is claiming that.

This particular article addresses the issue of Islamic terrorism---a gobal threat----and the difference in how it is being addressed by Europe as opposed to those in America who support Pres. Bush's tough stance.

Peace (but not at the cost of liberty),

Fiosh

Thank you for actually understanding the point of my message and not instantly accusing me of being an America-hater. I am glad that the US is taking a stance against Islamic terrorism. This is definatly a good thing. The article focused on that, but it also had plenty of random europe-bashing thrown in, and thats the part that rubbed me the wrong way.

An Italian author writes about Europe and you make it all about America?

There are 10 bash America topics on this board at any given day but I dont see you saying "I just feel that I should point out that no country is perfect, not Europe and not America." in all those threads.

This article isnt about America.

You did what the lefties constantly do when we speak of the Clintons.

They instantly make it all about Bush.Well, Bush did this and that.

Dont address the problems of the Clintons, just deflect the attention to someone else.

It is about America because of the "IN GOD WE TRUST GOD BLESS AMERICA" at the bottom. It just came across to me as picking out all Europe's weak points. The original article isn't even that bad, it was from an italian author complaining about problems in Europe. It bothers me that it has turned into a basis for arguing that America is better than Europe.

As for the other bash america threads, I have apparently missed them. I should be clear that I do not agree with bashing america simply because it's america, that is foolish and their are many many great things about the USA. I also do not agree with praising america just because it's america, as it also has flaws.

I'm sorry that this is apparently the wrong thing to post, but I do not like the opinion that america can do no wrong.

[Celtic Warrior]

It always amazes me how eager "Christians" are when it comes to defending war and opposing peace. How eagerly they draw the sword, despite all Christ said about being peacemakers and doing good to those who abuse you. I offer some thoughts from some pretty famous people on the subject, the 1st of which is

BLESSED ARE THE PEACEMAKERS, FOR THEY SHALL BE CALL THE SONS OF GOD

"In peace sons bury fathers, but war violates the order of nature, and fathers bury sons." -- Herodotus

"The warriors fight, and the kings are heroes." -- Jewish Proverb

"It is useless to send armies against ideas." -- Georg Brandes

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. " -- Issac Asimov

"The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war." -- Admiral Hyman Rickover, USN

But as President Theodore Roosevelt said, "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."2

People have not been horrified by war to a sufficient extent . . . . War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige as the warrior does today: -- John Fitzgerald Kennedy

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master This expresses my idea of democracy.

--Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)

Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?

--Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)

The better part of one's life consists of his friendships.

--Abraham Lincoln

I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to men.

All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book.

--Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)

In the future days, which we seek to make secure, we look forward

to a world founded upon four essential human freedoms

The first is freedom of speech and expression--everywhere in the world.

The second is freedom of every person to worship God in his own way--

everywhere in the world.

The third is freedom from want--which, translated into world terms, means economic understandings which will secure to every nation a healthy peacetime life for its inhabitants--everywhere in the world. The fourth is freedom from fear--which, translated into world terms, means a world-wide reduction of armaments to such a point and in such a thorough fashion that no nation will be in a position to commit an act of physical aggression against any neighbor--anywhere in the world.

-- Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." -- Albert Einstein

"If you had seen one day of war, you would pray to God that you would never see another." -- Duke of Wellington

"There never was a good war, or a bad peace." -- Benjamin Franklin

"War is the only game in which both sides lose." -- Walter Scott

"War is the blackest villainy of which human nature is capable." -- Erasmus

"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake." -- Jeanette Rankin, first woman member of Congress

"We cannot change history, but with love we can heal the future." -- Kim Phuc, who was photographed as a little girl in Vietnam as she ran screaming from her burning village, her clothes seared from her body by napalm

"The real and lasting victories are those of peace, and not of war." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"If you want to take revenge on somebody, you had better dig two graves." -- Chinese proverb

"As far as I am concerned, war itself is immoral." -- General Omar Bradley

"There never was a time when, in my opinion, some way could not be found to prevent the drawing of the sword." -- President Ulysses S. Grant

"The more I study the history of the world, the more I am convinced of the inability of brute force to create anything durable." -- Napoleon Bonaparte

"I have known war as few men now living know it. Its very destructiveness on both friend and foe has rendered it useless as a means of settling international disputes." -- General Douglas MacArthur

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." -- President John F. Kennedy

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist." -- President Dwight D. Eisenhower, from his farewell address

AND, Last but far from Least......

"I find it strange that the last place I can really quote Jesus these days is in American churches. They don't want to hear 'overcome evil with good.' They don't want to hear 'those who live by the sword die by the sword.' They don't want to hear 'if your enemy hurts you, do good, feed, clothe, minister to him.' They don't want to hear 'blessed are the merciful.' They don't want to hear 'love your enemies.'" -- Tony Campolo

[KeilanS]

Celtic Warrior, thank you for your post. Those are some great quotes. I also had no idea Abraham Lincoln had such a Christian viewpoint (The quote about the bible was a surprise). He seems like a great man, I may have to read more about him.

God Bless,

Keilan

[Giaour]

Arash: For all their differences, what the leading nations of Europe have in common is COWARDICE, and a shameless trucling to Islam.

Our second President, John Adams was a Christian man of extraordinary mental abilities. After studying Glorious Koran and Islam well, he wrote that America ALONE would one day have to fight the entire Moslem world (He wrote that some 200 years ago!).

He said we would not be able to rely on Europe for help, because Europe would be too secular, cowardly, and morally weak to offer assistance.

Tell me John Adams was not prophetic!

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadA...le.asp?ID=15201

WOW

[apothanein kerdos]

Celctic warrior...

Only one quote from the Bible...and a quote that deals with personal issues and not government ones?

This shows you lack biblical support, but hold plenty of humanistic support.

As for using Tony Campolo...the man teaches that homosexuality is okay, is a follower of Barth, and says the Bible merely contains the Word of God and isn't the Word of God. You really think I should trust His quotation and exegesis of scripture?

This is not an arrogant statement but a factual statement - I know more about interpretation, theology, and philosophy than Tony Campolo does...so does a vast majority of this board. The reason people don't like it when he speaks of Jesus is because he so often wrong.

Regardless, Christians should stand for justice. Justice teaches that sometimes war is necessary.

Do I support the war in Iraq? I honestly don't know, and I can't say that I do or don't. For me, there isn't a Biblical case for or against the war...thus I do not make judgements for those on either side. I will say, however, that since we are involved we should support our effort to win it. Likewise, our government does hold a right to wage war on percieved threats (Biblically). However, to say that Christians should not support war is to justify some horrible dictators that were removed by war.

[KeilanS]

In case you did not notice, this thread is not about America It is about European appeasement and bias toward islam. But since you mentioned America, I think it is noteworthy that you left out Canada, whose violent crime rate is 50% higher than here in America.

Canada is also far from perfect. It is very liberal. An "anything goes" philosophy is taking over here. Abortion, homosexuality, etc. is all okay. I have been watching the public opinion in my school and city slowly change from "Homosexuality is wrong" to "Well I wouldn't do it, but I'm fine if other people do" to "Stop being intolerant, homosexuality is just fine". It is my country, and I am not afraid to admit it has major flaws of it's own.

As for not being about America, it was made about America when the comments had an obvious sound of "Thankfully America isn't like that".

And I do like the US's more conservative stance towards things like homosexuality and it's active stance against radical Islam. They are some of the good things about America and I hope America stays that way (and I would also hope Canada takes a few lessons in that area).

God Bless,

Keilan

[Leonard]

It always amazes me how eager "Christians" are when it comes to defending war and opposing peace. How eagerly they draw the sword, despite all Christ said about being peacemakers and doing good to those who abuse you. I offer some thoughts from some pretty famous people on the subject, the 1st of which is

BLESSED ARE THE PEACEMAKERS, FOR THEY SHALL BE CALL THE SONS OF GOD

"In peace sons bury fathers, but war violates the order of nature, and fathers bury sons." -- Herodotus

"The warriors fight, and the kings are heroes." -- Jewish Proverb

"It is useless to send armies against ideas." -- Georg Brandes

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. " -- Issac Asimov

"The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war." -- Admiral Hyman Rickover, USN

But as President Theodore Roosevelt said, "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."2

People have not been horrified by war to a sufficient extent . . . . War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige as the warrior does today: -- John Fitzgerald Kennedy

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master This expresses my idea of democracy.

--Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)

Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?

--Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)

The better part of one's life consists of his friendships.

--Abraham Lincoln

I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to men.

All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book.

--Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)

In the future days, which we seek to make secure, we look forward

to a world founded upon four essential human freedoms

The first is freedom of speech and expression--everywhere in the world.

The second is freedom of every person to worship God in his own way--

everywhere in the world.

The third is freedom from want--which, translated into world terms, means economic understandings which will secure to every nation a healthy peacetime life for its inhabitants--everywhere in the world. The fourth is freedom from fear--which, translated into world terms, means a world-wide reduction of armaments to such a point and in such a thorough fashion that no nation will be in a position to commit an act of physical aggression against any neighbor--anywhere in the world.

-- Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." -- Albert Einstein

"If you had seen one day of war, you would pray to God that you would never see another." -- Duke of Wellington

"There never was a good war, or a bad peace." -- Benjamin Franklin

"War is the only game in which both sides lose." -- Walter Scott

"War is the blackest villainy of which human nature is capable." -- Erasmus

"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake." -- Jeanette Rankin, first woman member of Congress

"We cannot change history, but with love we can heal the future." -- Kim Phuc, who was photographed as a little girl in Vietnam as she ran screaming from her burning village, her clothes seared from her body by napalm

"The real and lasting victories are those of peace, and not of war." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"If you want to take revenge on somebody, you had better dig two graves." -- Chinese proverb

"As far as I am concerned, war itself is immoral." -- General Omar Bradley

"There never was a time when, in my opinion, some way could not be found to prevent the drawing of the sword." -- President Ulysses S. Grant

"The more I study the history of the world, the more I am convinced of the inability of brute force to create anything durable." -- Napoleon Bonaparte

"I have known war as few men now living know it. Its very destructiveness on both friend and foe has rendered it useless as a means of settling international disputes." -- General Douglas MacArthur

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." -- President John F. Kennedy

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist." -- President Dwight D. Eisenhower, from his farewell address

AND, Last but far from Least......

"I find it strange that the last place I can really quote Jesus these days is in American churches. They don't want to hear 'overcome evil with good.' They don't want to hear 'those who live by the sword die by the sword.' They don't want to hear 'if your enemy hurts you, do good, feed, clothe, minister to him.' They don't want to hear 'blessed are the merciful.' They don't want to hear 'love your enemies.'" -- Tony Campolo

To quote Jesus further: "A strong man, armed, keepeth his house." And "He who hath not a sword, let him sell his very winter garments to buy one."

And you forgot the Latin proverb: "Si vis pacem, para bellum."