Purgatory...defend this false doctrine!

[Floatingaxe]

Only the blood of Jesus can save. Even if you could give the total amount of money in the entire world it would not be enough to pay for your soul.

Nobody is talking about paying your way to heaven here.

Salvation is achieved for those who work on it. Salvation is possible for all.

We don't WORK for salvation. Salvation is a free gift for all.

The Scripture of Philippians 2:12 that admonishes us to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" is admonishing us to not take it for granted, but to be obedient to God and submit to the Lordship of Christ in order to grow in Godliness.

[Eliyahuw]

Only the blood of Jesus can save. Even if you could give the total amount of money in the entire world it would not be enough to pay for your soul.

Nobody is talking about paying your way to heaven here.

Salvation is achieved for those who work on it. Salvation is possible for all.

Work on it? Salvation is a gift of God. You cannot work for a Gift.

Salvation is deliverance. You cannot work for deliverance. deliverance comes from someone else stepping in when you cannot do it, and delivering you from evil. Again there is no working for Salvation or deliverance.

[Floatingaxe]

Only the blood of Jesus can save. Even if you could give the total amount of money in the entire world it would not be enough to pay for your soul.

Nobody is talking about paying your way to heaven here.

Salvation is achieved for those who work on it. Salvation is possible for all.

Work on it? Salvation is a gift of God. You cannot work for a Gift.

Salvation is deliverance. You cannot work for deliverance. deliverance comes from someone else stepping in when you cannot do it, and delivering you from evil. Again there is no working for Salvation or deliverance.

Doubly good!

[Guest Biblicist]

Ok, since no one seems to know what verse was quoted in defense of purgatory [sorry I spelled it wrong ] I looked some stuff up.

Revelation 21:27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

I guess the first part of the verse is their proof that those who have sin in their lives when they die can not enter Heaven.

However, it is important to note the last part of the verse. "Only those who's names are written in the Lamb's book of life". Therefore, if your name has been written in there, you will go to Heaven. Unless, Jesus has blotted it out, in which case, you're sunk. No amount of prayer from your family and friends is gonna help you.

Basically, you are either in or you are out. There is no in between.

Revelation 20:15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

[Eliyahuw]

Ok, since no one seems to know what verse was quoted in defense of purgatory [sorry I spelled it wrong ] I looked some stuff up.

Revelation 21:27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

I guess the first part of the verse is their proof that those who have sin in their lives when they die can not enter Heaven.

However, it is important to note the last part of the verse. "Only those who's names are written in the Lamb's book of life". Therefore, if your name has been written in there, you will go to Heaven. Unless, Jesus has blotted it out, in which case, you're sunk. No amount of prayer from your family and friends is gonna help you.

Basically, you are either in or you are out. There is no in between.

Revelation 20:15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Its a great thing that the Blood of christ covers all sin and that our names are entered into the book of life the moment were saved.

Theres only one thing that can remove your name from that book, that is to take away from the word of God.

[Floatingaxe]

Revelation 3:4-5...

Yet there are some in the church in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes with evil. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. All who are victorious will be clothed in white. I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine.

Jesus has an eraser.

[Guest Biblicist]

Its a great thing that the Blood of christ covers all sin and that our names are entered into the book of life the moment were saved.

Theres only one thing that can remove your name from that book, that is to take away from the word of God.

Amen!

Revelation 22:18-19 18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

[EricH]

For me on purgatory there are two main scriptural issues or problems.

1.) It would see to imply that even if our sins are forgiven by Christ that in itself is not good enough.

2.) What was Paul talking about when he spoke of us getting new glorified bodies? Do these bodies then go to purgatory or is purgatory where we would receive them? It just to me seems to cause some deep logical problems for the doctrine of purgatory.

There are no scriptural problems here, Smalcald.

1.) Christ redeemed us, placing our sins on his back, self sacrificing his body so that we might be redeemed...so that we might have the possibility of heaven. That being said, it is still easy for us all to fall...fall from Christ again and again, because we sin so much. Purgatory just cleanses our imperfection. It is not about forgiveness, but more about cleansing.

2.) There is no logical problem here. In order that the body may be glorified, it must be cleansed. There is complete logic. C.S. Lewis. Samuel Johnson.

Citing someone who holds the position does not guarantee there are not logical problems with the argument

By all means, give me something more logical then what these two VERY logical men have stated...and that I have logically shown, as Smalcald seems to understand, though still not convinced...

So your logic is that because CS Lewis is know for logic, everything he says must be logical (and scriptural). Since you believe this, I assume you accept all of his logical argument regarding things of the faith.

This is actually a form of faulty argumentation known as the "Appeal to Authority"

Here is the logic:

An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form:

Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S.

Person A makes claim C about subject S.

Therefore, C is true.

This fallacy is committed when:

1. The person claimed to be an authority really is not.

2. The person is an authority in the general area, but not in the specific area in question

3. There are other authorities of equal stature and number who disagree

4. The person in question is biased in some way

You are correct that CS Lewis did believe in purgatory. However, there are many other biblical schalars of equal stature that do not. So citing him does not really prove anything other than he believed it. In addition, CS Lewises view of purgatory was significantly different than the commonly held view. He did not view it as pnishment of any sort, and compared it to getting a mouth wash

[Eliyahuw]

Its a great thing that the Blood of christ covers all sin and that our names are entered into the book of life the moment were saved.

Theres only one thing that can remove your name from that book, that is to take away from the word of God.

Amen!

Revelation 22:18-19 18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Just want to make clear that this talking about the book of Revelation and not the Bible as a whole, as the verse does say "this book of prohecy."

And what part of Revelation is NOT the Word of God????

[Metropolitan]

Hell is all consuming fire....So then according to some, those who enter hell shud be more worthy to enter heaven again to thru the front door, as they are more purified than the prurgatory fire...is that so?

I believe that initial judgement is by faith and faith only!

The second judgement is of works and once we enter heaven, I think we are incapable of sinning again...so whats the point of purgatory fire any which ways?

And if our prayers(the ones who lives) can change the destiny of somone else who has died and gone, then Christs atoning scarifice is in vain! Now that is serious fallacy!