Purgatory...defend this false doctrine!

[rtwo]

If I'm not mistaken, the doctrine of purgatory can probably be found in the apocrypha (which, I should point out, is "apocryphal" for a reason).

[methinkshe]

Purgatory, how is this found in biblical teaching? If it isn't in the Bible, it is false, correct? Please leave some info for me.

It is not found in the Bible and it is a tradition of man perpetuated by the RC church which upholds church traditions as having equal validity to the Scripture. The very reason that the Reformation martyrs died - to re-establih the primacy and sufficiency of Scripture and challenge the priestly hierarchy and traditions of men that were being perpetuated by the RC church, of which Purgatory was one, and Indulgences another, and the doctrine of Transubstantiation, to name but a few. None has Scriptural backing.

Ruth

[Phil.2:12]

Purgatory, how is this found in biblical teaching? If it isn't in the Bible, it is false, correct? Please leave some info for me.

No, the concept of Purgatory (where the soul goes to be purged of the sins they took with them when they died) is not taught in Scripture. Paradise is taught in Scripture and was the place where all souls who believed in God before Jesus paid their sin debt waited for the appointed time. When Jesus paid their sin debt, they then were ready to enter into Heaven with Him.

Paradise was emptied by Jesus and does not exist today because it is totally unnecessary. For when an individual accepts Jesus as their Savior his or her sin debt is paid in full by the shed blood of Jesus, so no holding area for souls looking forward to redemption is now needed.

[Servus Christi]

Wow! How far off the mark.

So the blood of Jesus is incapable of cleansing us from all sin? Believing that lie will get you into a lot of trouble one Day.

Here is the problem. You do not respond to a single point I made. You just say, "You're wrong, I'm right."

I have quoted the Bible. The Bible is quite clear that no one is assured of salvation. What is so harmful about purgatory?

It doesn't matter about your single points. what matters is all of what your saying says the blood of christ is not enough. that in itself is enough to show your off the mark. WAY off the mark.

Christs blood atoned for all sin. So no one has to pay any price for sin unless they die unsaved.

What you are saying is that once your saved your always saved. Under this heretical doctrine, no matter how often you sin, and the measure of that sin, you are going to heaven. This heretical doctrine excludes Purgatory. Once you come to the realization that you can fall once being "saved", Purgatory comes into the picture. Another problem I see, is personal interpretation, you think based upon one or two verses, you can disregared a flood of Purgatorial statements. This is sad, yet a huge fad among Protestants. If you have as many verses as pro-Purgatorial arguments point too, you must reconcider your one or two, as maybe misinterpreted??

Beatus Dei, ave Christos!

[Servus Christi]

Wow! How far off the mark.

So the blood of Jesus is incapable of cleansing us from all sin? Believing that lie will get you into a lot of trouble one Day.

Here is the problem. You do not respond to a single point I made. You just say, "You're wrong, I'm right."

I have quoted the Bible. The Bible is quite clear that no one is assured of salvation. What is so harmful about purgatory?

Purgatory is not Biblical, there is absolutely no scriptural support for this. Some of the scripture that is supposedly supporting this doctrine comes from the Apocrypha....a set of books added to the bible by the Roman Catholic Church.

(Proverbs 30:5-6)

Every word of God is pure;

He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.

Do not add to His words,

Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Need I say more?

Welcome to Worthy, Kenna Frye!

You don't believe the Apocrphal legitamacy? I have to say, that the Roman Catholic's did not add them, they were in the Jewish canon and still are. Martin Luther quotes from the Palestinian Jew's not the Alexandrian Jew's. I would say, Martin Luther "REMOVED" them because they contradicted his man made theories. Ineed the Apocrypha are a very good source. If you would like to argue the Deuterocanical books, or the "apocrypha" I suggest you start that argument else where.

Beatus Dei, ave Christos

[apothanein kerdos]

I have to say, that the Roman Catholic's did not add them, they were in the Jewish canon and still are.

[Servus Christi]

Wow! How far off the mark.

So the blood of Jesus is incapable of cleansing us from all sin? Believing that lie will get you into a lot of trouble one Day.

Here is the problem. You do not respond to a single point I made. You just say, "You're wrong, I'm right."

I have quoted the Bible. The Bible is quite clear that no one is assured of salvation. What is so harmful about purgatory?

Well the Bible is quite plain that everyone who believes is assurted of Salvation! What Bible are you reading?????

What is harmful is that first, it is a lie. Second, and most importantly, it renders the sacrifice of Jesus Christ as worthless, incapable of salvation.

So...the Bible lies. Ok.

(edited by moderator) So Purgatory was made before Christ, meaning Christ had not died yet. His sacrifice is not worthless, nor incapable of granting salvation. He died that we "MIGHT" go too heaven, not so that we "MUST" go to heaven. He died to forgive sins, that does not mean we are going to Heaven. If He did indeed forgive our sins, why ask for forgivness, they are already forgiven, and why ask for forgivness your going to Heaven anyways.... Your jumping to the left wing, saying if Purgatory exists then Christ's sacrifice is worthless, when it is quite the opposite. Purgatory states that, while Christ did forgive our sins, we must repent because we must be "purged" of the stain of that sin. Purgatory is extremely scriptural. I do pose a question however, where in scripture, does it say that there is only a Heaven and a Hell?

Beatus Dei, ave Christos!

[Servus Christi]

Maybe if one realizes that the Word of God is the sole authority, rather than the soul authority, one would find the logic of Purgatory illogical!

Sorry, I just had to...

Axey, wouldn't the Word of God be the SOUL authority, as well?

lol, if it is the "sole" authority, then it should be teaching by itself. Seeing when you begin formulating your own opinions on what this "sole authority" actually means you become the "sole authority" and the Bible becomes a bunch of words to back your opinion up.

Beatus Dei, ave Christos!

[Servus Christi]

Purgatory, how is this found in biblical teaching? If it isn't in the Bible, it is false, correct? Please leave some info for me.

It is not found in the Bible and it is a tradition of man perpetuated by the RC church which upholds church traditions as having equal validity to the Scripture. The very reason that the Reformation martyrs died - to re-establih the primacy and sufficiency of Scripture and challenge the priestly hierarchy and traditions of men that were being perpetuated by the RC church, of which Purgatory was one, and Indulgences another, and the doctrine of Transubstantiation, to name but a few. None has Scriptural backing.

Ruth

Where to start....First off, the RCC did not make Purgatory, they named it and enforced it. The jew's believed in Purgatory thousands of years before the "RCC" came around. Second, the RCC being the Church that Jesus Christ instituted, and being composed of the True Body of Christ, has the authority to teach scripture, and is equal in all aspects to scripture. Without an equal authority to teach the Holy Scriptures, you end up with Personal interpretation, which results in a million screaming voices preaching the "absolute truth" all lead by the "Holy Spirit" all contradicing eachother and scripture. The Priestly Hierarchy, is entirley Biblical, "Universal Priesthood of all believers" is utterly anti-scriptural. "Traditions"? Here is a good example of tradition you might follow. In the ten commandments, God say's "remember and keep holy the sabbath", yet no where in the entire Bible, 73 books, or the slaughtered 66, is ever mentioned a calender, of six day's resulting in the sabbath on a "Saturday". No where. Instead we rely on the tradition of "men", as the "sole" source of this belief that the sabbath is on saturday... That is funny...."and the doctrine of Transubstantiation, to name but a few. None has Scriptural backing." This is interesting, seeing John Wycliffe, and Martin Luther said the "mass" was idolatry, but stronlgy held the prescence in the eucharist i.e. transubstantiation. Do not follow some of the reformists beliefs, and not all of them. the Eucharist is the most scriptural sacrament in the Bible, and I would be most happy to debate this with you. Indulgences again, are very scriptural.

Beatus Dei, ave Christos!

[Servus Christi]

Purgatory, how is this found in biblical teaching? If it isn't in the Bible, it is false, correct? Please leave some info for me.

No, the concept of Purgatory (where the soul goes to be purged of the sins they took with them when they died) is not taught in Scripture. Paradise is taught in Scripture and was the place where all souls who believed in God before Jesus paid their sin debt waited for the appointed time. When Jesus paid their sin debt, they then were ready to enter into Heaven with Him.

Paradise was emptied by Jesus and does not exist today because it is totally unnecessary. For when an individual accepts Jesus as their Savior his or her sin debt is paid in full by the shed blood of Jesus, so no holding area for souls looking forward to redemption is now needed.

LOL, where is "Paradise" taught in scripture, I do not recall this term being used in scripture in the context ever! I do believe you just made a man made doctrine....I pose a question, if our debt is paid in full, at what point does this illogical gift become valid, and can it become void. Please do not answer that it cannot become void, if you leave you were never saved, because then you have no assurance of your salvation. Seeing that anyone can leave Christianity, and often they do, does not mean they were never Christians, it means they are human, and ineed have free will. The only proper term for Paradise, is true happiness, however waiting for God, for hundreds, thousands of years, is that happiness?

Beatus Dei, ave Christos!