Purgatory...defend this false doctrine!

[exrockstar]

Matthew 12:32

"Whoever says a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or the age to come."

If Jesus forgave all of our sins by his death and resurrection and we need no other cleansing for salvation, why does he give the implication that some sins can be forgiven in the next world? Those in hell cannot be forgiven. Those in heaven NEED not be forgiven. Where does this remission of sin come from? A purification the soul must endure to enter heaven.

the Matthew scripture says "age" and you are talking about "worlds."

When Christ said this it was age of the law, the age to come was "grace" and it started at Pentecost.

What made you decide to conclude it was life and afterlife?

we may have to look this up in greek? ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[exrockstar]

Matthew 12:32

"Whoever says a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or the age to come."

If Jesus forgave all of our sins by his death and resurrection and we need no other cleansing for salvation, why does he give the implication that some sins can be forgiven in the next world? Those in hell cannot be forgiven. Those in heaven NEED not be forgiven. Where does this remission of sin come from? A purification the soul must endure to enter heaven.

the Matthew scripture says "age" and you are talking about "worlds."

When Christ said this it was age of the law, the age to come was "grace" and it started at Pentecost.

What made you decide to conclude it was life and afterlife?

we may have to look this up in greek? ... 3xR0c|<stAr

I stand corrected. Ages = time to come = dispensation

Hebrews 1:2 says "Hebrews 1

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds (ages);

the age Christ was talking about was not a life and afterlife as Kansasdad explains. It is the world, or age, of grace.

good old Strong's and companion bible usually clears up misleading information some people give.

goodnight all. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[Floatingaxe]

By the way the concept of purgatory does not negate the cross.

No, it doesn't negate, it adds to...................it adds to.......................it adds to!!!

It does negate, however, the totality of Jesus' precious blood covering for ALL our unrighteousness. I am positive Jesus is dishonored by such a belief, and those who embrace it will have to answer the question, "Why was My blood not good enough for you?" and, "Did I not love you enough?".... I shudder to think what effect the answer will or won't have on them.

I understand what you are trying to say, but to say this you are saying that Scripture negates or adds to Scripture, and this is not possible. Without the blood of Christ on the Cross it would not be possible in any fashion for us to get into heaven period. The concept of purgatory does not change that in the slightest.

Purgatory as a concept does exactly what I said. It denies Jesus' blood the full atonement power. What part of, "It is finished!" do people who embrace Purgatory not believe or understand?

Again you are not dealing with the points made or the verses provided. If Scripture contradicts your understanding of "it is finished" then maybe your understanding of "it is finished" is wrong? FL you have yet to respond directly to the questions asked or points made on three verses of scripture that refer to something that can not be heaven and can not be Hell. Guess what there are more, but it is late and I am going to bed. I will post more tomorrow.

Those scriptures are misunderstood. Too late for me as well...

[gypc]

Matthew 12:32

"Whoever says a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or the age to come."

If Jesus forgave all of our sins by his death and resurrection and we need no other cleansing for salvation, why does he give the implication that some sins can be forgiven in the next world? Those in hell cannot be forgiven. Those in heaven NEED not be forgiven. Where does this remission of sin come from? A purification the soul must endure to enter heaven.

the Matthew scripture says "age" and you are talking about "worlds."

When Christ said this it was age of the law, the age to come was "grace" and it started at Pentecost.

What made you decide to conclude it was life and afterlife?

we may have to look this up in greek? ... 3xR0c|<stAr

I stand corrected. Ages = time to come = dispensation

Hebrews 1:2 says "Hebrews 1

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds (ages);

the age Christ was talking about was not a life and afterlife as Kansasdad explains. It is the world, or age, of grace.

good old Strong's and companion bible usually clears up misleading information some people give.

goodnight all. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

Hey this is good!

[exrockstar]

I stand corrected. Ages = time to come = dispensation

Hebrews 1:2 says "Hebrews 1

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds (ages);

the age Christ was talking about was not a life and afterlife as Kansasdad explains. It is the world, or age, of grace.

good old Strong's and companion bible usually clears up misleading information some people give.

goodnight all. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

Hey this is good!

Jesus throughout His ministry was talking about a new era that He was bringing forth.

Even when I read this story the first time I never took it as the "life and afterlife."

All KD can do now is go verify in his study books and investigate for himself. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

Edited April 25, 2007 by exrockstar

[Kansasdad]

I stand corrected. Ages = time to come = dispensation

Hebrews 1:2 says "Hebrews 1

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds (ages);

the age Christ was talking about was not a life and afterlife as Kansasdad explains. It is the world, or age, of grace.

good old Strong's and companion bible usually clears up misleading information some people give.

goodnight all. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

Hey this is good!

Jesus throughout His ministry was talking about a new era that He was bringing forth.

Even when I read this story the first time I never took it as the "life and afterlife."

All KD can do now is go verify in his study books and investigate for himself. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

I know you all think I am too stubborn to consider what is being said, but that is just becausee you don't know me

Saying that Jesus is refering to the age before his death and resurection and the age after does have merrit. I can see this.

But this is not based on just one verse in scripture. There are several that speek of a "place" or situation of the soul that can not be Hell and can not be Heaven.

I am very very busy today, but go back and take each verse and examine what is being said.

God Bless,

K.D.

[exrockstar]

I know you all think I am too stubborn to consider what is being said, but that is just becausee you don't know me

Saying that Jesus is refering to the age before his death and resurection and the age after does have merrit. I can see this.

But this is not based on just one verse in scripture. There are several that speek of a "place" or situation of the soul that can not be Hell and can not be Heaven.

I am very very busy today, but go back and take each verse and examine what is being said.

God Bless,

K.D.

youre right i don't know you that well so I don't really mean that in a harmful way.

I actually appreciate people talking about things that make me want to open reference books.

So while it seems I'm teasing you, I appreciate the investigation because it benefits me also. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[Floatingaxe]

KD,

There are no Scriptures that allude to any such places. What is happening is that your early teaching has influenced how you read the scriptures.

Where others haver had a cloudy understanding, they have filled in the "gaps" of their understanding with faulty thinking. It has become a doctrine to many, and is a major hindrance to the clarity of mind that the Holy Spirit labours to give us.

We can go over these Scriptures that are in question throughout this thread if you wish. I am at work for the next 3 hours and am not at too much liberty to search the Scriptures, but I will do what I can, as well as anyone else here who is up to the task.

Are you willing to hear what the Word of God really is saying to us, KD?

If not, then I won't waste my time, and no offense is taken.

[MeCajunboy]

It is not a biblical belief. It is a belief spawned by some early pope, as a money making enterprise for the church, propbably as a means also to assuage the grief of families who lost children to disease, as the infant mortality rates in the middle ages were extremely high.

Try not to use the term "probably" in areas where you don't truly know the facts about how and why a thought originated, as it makes you appear less believable, or even "some pope," for all that matters

[Floatingaxe]

It is not a Biblical belief. It is a belief spawned by some early pope, as a money making enterprise for the church, propbably as a means also to assuage the grief of families who lost children to disease, as the infant mortality rates in the middle ages were extremely high.

Try not to use the term "probably" in areas where you don't truly know the facts about how and why a thought originated, as it makes you appear less believable, or even "some pope," for all that matters

"Probably" is a good word for what I think. It is completely adequate. You can use whichever word you wish in your posts.

The point is, there is no Biblical basis for such a belief.