Salvation question

[exrockstar]

exrockstar

Baptism gets addressed again in later doctrine and then it reveals itself.

Did Jesus or did he not command baptism (in the Great Commission) for all generations

[exrockstar]

exrockstar

the water baptism symbolized what the Spirit was doing all along AT THE MOMENT OF SALVATION NOT WHEN YOU WERE DIPPED IN WATER:

Brother - Romans 6:3-5 is discussing the working of the Holy Spirit on the hearts of men and women as they are immersed (buried) in water and rise up out of the

[rtwo]

You are not arguing with me, you are arguing with scripture. I have given proof of this and can supply more. Acts 2:38 plainly says that we are baptized for the remission of sins and we know that only by the blood of Christ we have remission. Look again at where it plainly states that the blood, water, and spirit agree in one. If we are baptized to wash away our sins and receive remission of sins and the blood of Christ is what washes away our sins then we know that the blood, water, and spirit do agree in one.

Just to be clear, if somebody confesses to Christ, believe in His life, death and resurrection for the remission to sin, and dies before he finds water, is he damned?

Acts 8:36-39 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

You will see here by this example that there was a sinner who wanted to be baptized. Philip said if he believes then he can.

Look at Romans 6 again where it plainly states that the death and resurrection is during baptism and we are baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) and all of this happens at the same time.

I read in that story that baptism comes -after- belief...

but it doesn't answer my question. Are you suggesting that there is, in fact, no salvation without water, and that my postulative desert believer is, in fact, damned? I'm just trying to sort out the redemptive properties of water.

[exrockstar]

exrockstar

the water baptism symbolized what the Spirit was doing all along AT THE MOMENT OF SALVATION NOT WHEN YOU WERE DIPPED IN WATER:

Brother - Romans 6:3-5 is discussing the working of the Holy Spirit on the hearts of men and women as they are immersed (buried) in water and rise up out of the

[Eliyahuw]

Question:

Are we finding reasons to NOT be baptised? Is there something against baptism in general; a reason people don't -want- to obey that particular command? We seem to be splitting a lot of, frankly, semantic hairs here, and I'm just wondering why we're trying so hard to justify ignoring baptism...

God said to do it... if it's not part of the salvation process, so be it. Okay. I agree. But God still said to do it. God also said to feed the orphan and the poor; to take care of the widow -- once again, this is not something on which our salvation is contingent -- but God did say to do it. It's not proclaiming "works-based" salvation to remind you that as Christians we have responsibility to God -- just like it's not legalism to remind you that God wants you to be baptised.

The problem is that people are requiring baptism to be saved. That is a lie from hell. It doesn't matter if God said to do it, what matters is that if its being taught that its required for salvation, its a lie and will lead people to hell with that teaching if their faith is in baptism.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, it is negating the fact that christs blood was enough. It takes away the importance and meaning of his sacrifice.

It says christ issn't enough, i need to do something to save myself

Are you calling this scripture of Christ's own words a lie from hell?

Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

This plainly states that if I believe AND am baptized I will be saved.

Your understanding is wrong. it does not say that you have to be baptized to be saved.

note the last part. baptism doesn't save. Belief does.

Also you are plainly not reading where in Romans 6 that we are buried with Christ in baptism and in Galatians where all those who are baptized into Christ have put on Christ. This is not taking away from Christ nor stating that the blood is not enough. What is being done is putting in order the ways in which Christ ordained them.

Christ was baptized, the Apostles were baptized, they went all over the world baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost for the remission of their sins, but according to you it is not needed and we can be saved without it.

Christ was not baptized as christians are today! NO sir he was baptized under the jewish law of baptism the baptism of john the baptist. thats a totally different baptism.

Christ never said you had to be baptized to be saved.

EPH 2:8&9 No baptism here! just Saved by Grace, through faith. No baptism

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 10:8 & 9 Confessing with the mouth the lord jesus and belive in your heart, and god raising him from the dead brings salvation, No baptism in salvation here.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.'

John 3:16 No baptism here, just believe in christ.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

By trusting in Grace or Gods forgiving mercy is how one is saved. Even david knew this.

Psa 13:5 But I have trusted in thy mercy; my heart shall rejoice in thy salvation.

Remission of sins is by Salvation only. not baptism

Luk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Salvation is through Christ, not of baptism

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Salvation is obtained through belief

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Self explanatory.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Salvation is through repentence not baptism

2Cr 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

WE get our salvation through christ.

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

salvation is through sanctification of the spirit and belief in Christ. Not baptism

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Salvation is through faith, not baptism

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Salvation is brought about by Gods grace. Baptism isn't grace.

Tts 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Salvation is not of baptism it is of Christ. Baptism is a result of salvation. it is a outward showing of a inward change.

[Floatingaxe]

Baptism (as a dear brother put it) is like a wedding ring. You are married by law, the ring just displays that to everyone who sees it on your finger.

that is a good analogy. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

But what if not very many people saw you get baptized? 10 years after your baptism how will people know you were baptized? People can still see the ring, but they can't see the baptism. There are to many scriptures that attest to what baptism does to be merely an outward sign.

i havent been baptized. I dont care about what the public thinks.

the only public declaration I care about is God's presence in your attitude towards others and self. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

Not being baptized will not affect salvation, but REFUSING to be baptized as we are commanded reveals an immovable will. That is something that God will have to deal with in you and it won't be easy for you.

I shudder to think what you are missing with such an attitude...

Someone who truly loves Jesus and appreciates what he was saved FROM, will jump for joy at the prospect of being baptized into His life. Why will you not be baptized into Jesus Christ?

[methinkshe]

The following excerpt from this link:

Bible Baptism

seems to sum up Scriptural teaching very adequately.

"Baptism DOES NOT make one a child of God. Baptism is only a figure or symbol of what has taken place in the believer

[exrockstar]

horiz, let me ask you a general question.

do you believe baptism transitioned from one thing to another?

or do you believe that the Baptism John the Baptist did

is the same all around concept Christ told the Apostles to do and what current baptizers believe? ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[methinkshe]

It is important to understand that the Greek word for baptism means "to be immersed" or "to be plunged into" - no more and no less. It could mean to be immersed into a bowl of porridge, or to be immersed into a crowd. So what, as believers, are we being commanded to be immersed in, to be plunged into? Is it not that we are commanded to be baptised/immersed into Jesus? Is not water immersion just a symbol of our full immersion into Jesus?

Ruth

[Guest lnj]

Following Jesus SHOULD be relatively simple..(I didn't say easy.). Things get tricky when theres too many extras and ideas added on to simply Following the Master.

Aren't we supposed to do what Jesus did? He was Baptised, therefore we follow suit.