Question about believing on Christ

[RedeemedByHim]

My message is for Neo...

I do not mean to be harsh, but let me share a story with you. I was deep into drugs, alcohol, and so much more. I had tried church several times. Then one day, I meet these pastors...They helped me for a while and then when I ended up failing in their eyes, I was told that the reason Church never worked for me was because I wasn't one of "elect" to go to Heaven and believe. This caused me to hate God. I thought to myself, why would God only choose certain people to go to Heaven? WHy wasn't I good enough. I had heard what Jesus did for me. It has taken a long time to come to the place where I now know God has chosen me. He has chosen ALL of us. and there are still times where those words affect me. I can't stand the calvinist teaching because of the damage it had done to me. Where were those people when I just needed someone to cry with? They thought they were so much better than me because they were of the elect. I have now been clean for 3 and a half years and I am studying for the ministry. Praise God.

I just wanted to share my story with you. I know there are many calvinist in here...and I still love you...but the church I knew this couple with didn't have the love of Jesus to share with me.

[Neopatriarch]

My message is for Neo...

I do not mean to be harsh, but let me share a story with you. I was deep into drugs, alcohol, and so much more. I had tried church several times. Then one day, I meet these pastors...They helped me for a while and then when I ended up failing in their eyes, I was told that the reason Church never worked for me was because I wasn't one of "elect" to go to Heaven and believe. This caused me to hate God. I thought to myself, why would God only choose certain people to go to Heaven? WHy wasn't I good enough. I had heard what Jesus did for me. It has taken a long time to come to the place where I now know God has chosen me. He has chosen ALL of us. and there are still times where those words affect me. I can't stand the calvinist teaching because of the damage it had done to me. Where were those people when I just needed someone to cry with? They thought they were so much better than me because they were of the elect. I have now been clean for 3 and a half years and I am studying for the ministry. Praise God.

I just wanted to share my story with you. I know there are many calvinist in here...and I still love you...but the church I knew this couple with didn't have the love of Jesus to share with me.

Those pastors were wrong to say you were not one of the elect because no one knows who is elect and who is reprobate (except God of course).

[methinkshe]

I've posted the following illustration before but I think it bears repeating because it helps to understand what seems like a paradox - that Christ died for the sins of the WHOLE world, but those who accept His salvation are the Elect.

There is a door which every man may pass. On the outside of the door is written: whosoever will, may come. Those who choose to open the door and enter, discover that on the reverse side of the door is written: chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

In Jesus,

Ruth

[RedeemedByHim]

I've posted the following illustration before but I think it bears repeating because it helps to understand what seems like a paradox - that Christ died for the sins of the WHOLE world, but those who accept His salvation are the Elect.

There is a door which every man may pass. On the outside of the door is written: whosoever will, may come. Those who choose to open the door and enter, discover that on the reverse side of the door is written: chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

In Jesus,

Ruth

[Neopatriarch]

I've posted the following illustration before but I think it bears repeating because it helps to understand what seems like a paradox - that Christ died for the sins of the WHOLE world, but those who accept His salvation are the Elect.

There is a door which every man may pass. On the outside of the door is written: whosoever will, may come. Those who choose to open the door and enter, discover that on the reverse side of the door is written: chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

In Jesus,

Ruth

We are supposed to preach the gospel indiscriminately partly because we don't know who is elect and who is reprobate. Also, we preach indiscriminately so that those who are reprobates will be without excuse.

What does it mean to say "Christ died for the sins of the WHOLE world"? Does it mean that everyone's sins are paid for? If that's the case, then why are some still going to hell?

[RedeemedByHim]

I've posted the following illustration before but I think it bears repeating because it helps to understand what seems like a paradox - that Christ died for the sins of the WHOLE world, but those who accept His salvation are the Elect.

There is a door which every man may pass. On the outside of the door is written: whosoever will, may come. Those who choose to open the door and enter, discover that on the reverse side of the door is written: chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

In Jesus,

Ruth

We are supposed to preach the gospel indiscriminately partly because we don't know who is elect and who is reprobate. Also, we preach indiscriminately so that those who are reprobates will be without excuse.

What does it mean to say "Christ died for the sins of the WHOLE world"? Does it mean that everyone's sins are paid for? If that's the case, then why are some still going to hell?

Because they haven't Believed! Not because Christ didn't die for Him..How do you explain John 3:16. For God so Loved the WORLD that WHOEVER believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life? Is that verse cut out of your Bible because that says He died for EVERYONE and ANYONE who believes will be saved...God doesn't choose who will get saved and who won't....that is such a prideful belief...again...my standpoint does not mean to be harsh...but it is a damaging belief...I know that because I have lived through the pain your belief teaches....

[methinkshe]

I've posted the following illustration before but I think it bears repeating because it helps to understand what seems like a paradox - that Christ died for the sins of the WHOLE world, but those who accept His salvation are the Elect.

There is a door which every man may pass. On the outside of the door is written: whosoever will, may come. Those who choose to open the door and enter, discover that on the reverse side of the door is written: chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

In Jesus,

Ruth

We are supposed to preach the gospel indiscriminately partly because we don't know who is elect and who is reprobate. Also, we preach indiscriminately so that those who are reprobates will be without excuse.

What does it mean to say "Christ died for the sins of the WHOLE world"? Does it mean that everyone's sins are paid for? If that's the case, then why are some still going to hell?

Because they haven't Believed! Not because Christ didn't die for Him..How do you explain John 3:16. For God so Loved the WORLD that WHOEVER believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life? Is that verse cut out of your Bible because that says He died for EVERYONE and ANYONE who believes will be saved...God doesn't choose who will get saved and who won't....that is such a prideful belief...again...my standpoint does not mean to be harsh...but it is a damaging belief...I know that because I have lived through the pain your belief teaches....

Exactly so! It is not sin that now separates man from God, it is unbelief in the solution that God provided to deal with sin - i.e. the atoning sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ.

In Jesus,

Ruth

[Neopatriarch]

Because they haven't Believed! Not because Christ didn't die for Him..How do you explain John 3:16. For God so Loved the WORLD that WHOEVER believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life? Is that verse cut out of your Bible because that says He died for EVERYONE and ANYONE who believes will be saved...God doesn't choose who will get saved and who won't....that is such a prideful belief...again...my standpoint does not mean to be harsh...but it is a damaging belief...I know that because I have lived through the pain your belief teaches....

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Does this mean that God savingly loved everyone he predestined to hell from before Pharaoh through Judas and beyond? If that's the case, why did God fail to save them? Is he impotent?

The "world" here cannot mean every individual who has ever lived and will ever lived. I take it to mean that God has included Gentiles in his plan of salvation. We often make a distinction between the church and "the world". Jews made a similar distinction, but now the Gentiles are grafted in. Not all of them. The elect.

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Apparently, God hates some people. He savingly loves the elect, but since he is sending some people to hell, I don't know how we can say God loves them unless there is some kind of nonsaving love he shows them. Remember God also hated Esau. So how could God love the world (that is, everyone) in the way you are talking about? It makes the bible contradict itself.

Romans 14:23 says, "For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin." Did Christ die for the sin of unbelief? If so, then no one should go to hell for the sin of unbelief.

-Neopatriarch

[RedeemedByHim]

Because they haven't Believed! Not because Christ didn't die for Him..How do you explain John 3:16. For God so Loved the WORLD that WHOEVER believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life? Is that verse cut out of your Bible because that says He died for EVERYONE and ANYONE who believes will be saved...God doesn't choose who will get saved and who won't....that is such a prideful belief...again...my standpoint does not mean to be harsh...but it is a damaging belief...I know that because I have lived through the pain your belief teaches....

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Does this mean that God savingly loved everyone he predestined to hell from before Pharaoh through Judas and beyond? If that's the case, why did God fail to save them? Is he impotent?

The "world" here cannot mean every individual who has ever lived and will ever lived. I take it to mean that God has included Gentiles in his plan of salvation. We often make a distinction between the church and "the world". Jews made a similar distinction, but now the Gentiles are grafted in. Not all of them. The elect.

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Apparently, God hates some people. He savingly loves the elect, but since he is sending some people to hell, I don't know how we can say God loves them unless there is some kind of nonsaving love he shows them. Remember God also hated Esau. So how could God love the world (that is, everyone) in the way you are talking about? It makes the bible contradict itself.

Romans 14:23 says, "For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin." Did Christ die for the sin of unbelief? If so, then no one should go to hell for the sin of unbelief.

-Neopatriarch

I am sorry to say this...and this is all I am going to say, but I am sickened by your post...how can you say that God hates some and loves others...I am now done with this because I personally cannot take anymore lies about my God and my Savior...the one that loved me despite my past...Blessings...

[methinkshe]

Hello all,

I became a Christian in an Arminian church. There I was told to accept Christ's death for my sins. But now, as a Calvinist, I wonder what does it mean for me to believe on Christ? Everyone who hears the gospel is obligated to believe it, but does this mean they are obligated to believe that Christ died for their sins? When I became a Christian I chose to believe that Christ died for my sins. I didn't know Christ died for my sins. How could I? For all I knew at the time I was a reprobate who would never believe on Christ. If that were the case, and I was nevertheless obligated to believe that Christ died for my sins, then I was obligated to believe a lie because Christ did not die for reprobates. He died for the elect.

So the question is: Does believing on Christ entail believing that Christ died for your sins? How do you know?

-Neopatriarch

You know what, Neo, having re-read your OP it seems to me that you see believing on the Lord Jesus - receiving salvation - as a recipe, a technique. Something one does according to the Calvinist doctrine or the Arminian doctrine or the Roman Catholic doctrine, or the Homer Simpson doctrine. You are so wrong! When one MEETS Jesus, one believes - that's it! Only later do some people come along and try and tell you that you must be Calvinist or Arminian or something else. What the hec do we who have been saved care for whatever ism you like to brand us with? All we know is that once we were lost, now we are found; once we were without hope, now we have hope. Once we were unloved, now we are loved. "My chains fell off, my heart was free, I rose went forth and followed thee."

In Jesus,

Ruth