Pentecostals please!

[Natt]

Hi,

I've just been searching through the OSAS doctrine as well as those that dont believe it.

I've read some teaching that stated that once you are saved and you lose your salvation through some immoral action you can lose your salvation permanently.

My question is this true and what is bad enough to lose you salvation permanently?

Also does repentence for these immoral acts be sufficient for forgiveness?

[Guest franklyn.g]

Not according to my reading of God,s word.The death of our Lord more than covered any sin we might commit while on this Earth but we must be prepatred to acknowledge our sin and the source of that sin and ask for help to remove the source and recieve the forgiveness available to us.There is no point in asking for forgiveness if the source of our sin is still active.I hope this goes some way to answering your question franklyn.g

Hi,

I've just been searching through the OSAS doctrine as well as those that dont believe it.

I've read some teaching that stated that once you are saved and you lose your salvation through some immoral action you can lose your salvation permanently.

My question is this true and what is bad enough to lose you salvation permanently?

Also does repentence for these immoral acts be sufficient for forgiveness?

[IreneM]

Sins are sins to God

immoral to what

sin is sin

sleeping with some one you are not married to is immoral

sleeping with the same sex is immoral

but is not Gods Love and the Death of Christ on the Cross enogh to cover those sins if we repent

there is not sin greater then God Love and Jesus Blood

Some pentsacosta;s beleive that is you don't speak in a heavenly languge you are not saved

that is not what MY bible says

In Christ

Irene M

[Natt]

Here is what I read

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_sava3.htm

Hebrews 6:4-6: "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the son of God afresh and put him to an open shame."

The first two verses define precisely an individual who had being saved and was receiving the benefits of salvation. The last verse states clearly that a person is quite capable of falling away from the faith...and if they do so, that it is impossible for their salvation to be renewed.

Christians who believe that a person can never lose their salvation may interpret this passage as meaning:

That they were never true believers in the first place, and thus were never initially saved, or

That Verse 6 says that a saved person who rejected Jesus and denied the Christian faith would never be able to repent in the future. If they could never repent, then they could never be saved again. However, it is not clear why they could not repent a second time. If they repented once, there does not seem to be any obvious reason why they could not repeat the process at a later time.

[Marnie]

From Biblical scholar Leon Morris:

There has been much discussion of the significance of this passage (Hebrews 6:4-8). Some think that the author is speaking about genuine Christians who fall away and that he denies that they may ever come back. This view sets the author of the epistle at odds with other NT writers for whom it is clear that the perseverance of the saints is something that comes from God and not from their own efforts (John 6:37; 10:27-29). Others think that the case here is purely hypothetical. Because the writer does not say that this has ever happened, they infer that it never could really happen and that to put it this way makes the warning more impressive. But, unless the writer is speaking of something that could really happen, it is not a warning about anything. Granted, he does not say that anyone has apostatized in this way, nevertheless, he surely means that someone could.

A third possibility is that the writer is talking about what looks very much like the real thing but lacks something. The case of Simon Magus comes to mind. He is said to have believed, been baptized and to have continued with Philip (Acts 8:13). Presumably, he shared in the laying on on of hands and the gift given by it. Yet after all this Peter could say to him, "Your heart is not right before God...you are full of bitterness and captive to sin" (Acts 8:21-23). The writer is saying that when people have entered into the Christian experience far enough to know what it is all about and have then turned away, then as far as they themselves are concerned, they are crucifying Christ. In that state they cannot repent.

[Natt]

Perhaps I am simply dense, but I don't quite undertsand the Pentecostal tie-in?

As an aside IreneM, I know of no main-line Pentecostal denominations, off hand, that believe you have to speak in tongues to be saved. UPC, perhaps, but I don't know for sure. Many believe speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. CoG, FS, and AoG fellowships do not believe tongues affect your salvation.

I found I'm started studying this more because of a Pentecostal Minister. Sorry if I've offended anyone.

[Guest LadyC]

and you think OSAS is a pentacostal teaching? honestly i don't know that it is. i was raised baptist and taught that doctrine. and it filled me with fear all my life that, if i struggled with a particular sin, i must not "really be saved". and then God revealed to me something so simple, yet so astounding that i was filled with total peace and have never feared again. and He revealed it to me at a time in my life when i was far, far from God, and wishing I could get close again but afraid that i may have already been turned over to my reprobate mind. and His revelation brought me back.

we can't do anything bad enough for God to turn His back on us other than blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. however, we CAN choose to turn our backs on God. so we can throw our salvation away... we can reject the gift we have already received.

but it doesn't happen by accident. if we reject God, it is a concious act of will on our part... not a temporary "i'm mad and i'm lashing out at God" type thing, but a total rejection of Jesus and indifference to the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

this lines up with the totality of scripture which speaks often of apostacy. i know many people disagree with me, so i'm not going to continue in this thread. i've said what i came to say.

by the way, i currently am a member of a pentacostal church.

[Vickilynn]

and you think OSAS is a pentacostal teaching? honestly i don't know that it is. i was raised baptist and taught that doctrine. and it filled me with fear all my life that, if i struggled with a particular sin, i must not "really be saved". and then God revealed to me something so simple, yet so astounding that i was filled with total peace and have never feared again. and He revealed it to me at a time in my life when i was far, far from God, and wishing I could get close again but afraid that i may have already been turned over to my reprobate mind. and His revelation brought me back.

we can't do anything bad enough for God to turn His back on us other than blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. however, we CAN choose to turn our backs on God. so we can throw our salvation away... we can reject the gift we have already received.

but it doesn't happen by accident. if we reject God, it is a concious act of will on our part... not a temporary "i'm mad and i'm lashing out at God" type thing, but a total rejection of Jesus and indifference to the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

this lines up with the totality of scripture which speaks often of apostacy. i know many people disagree with me, so i'm not going to continue in this thread. i've said what i came to say.

by the way, i currently am a member of a pentacostal church.

Shalom ladyC.

I believe the same thing about OSAS. I totally agree with you.

I'm not a member of a pentecostal church.

But I am a member of the Family of G-d!

[Guest LadyC]

I am Pentecostal as well LadyC, but most Pentecostals reject OSAS, they don't accept it. I was just saying that there are a great number of churches that don't believe in OSAS outside of the Pentecostal circles.

i was responding to the OP... didn't even read your post til after i'd posted mine! but i will say that even though i have belonged to a pentacostal church for the last year and a half, i honestly couldn't have told anyone WHAT the pentacostal church's position on it is. i can only speak to what my own position is.... but it's good to know! i can't recall ever hearing a sermon by my pastor on this subject, and really had no clue what any other particular denomination's position is either. i just wanted to provide my own personal position....

but i'm glad to know that OSAS is not typically a pentacostal belief... i can't imagine my pastor agreeing with that doctrine, even if i've never asked him about it.

[Natt]

and you think OSAS is a pentacostal teaching? honestly i don't know that it is. i was raised baptist and taught that doctrine. and it filled me with fear all my life that, if i struggled with a particular sin, i must not "really be saved". and then God revealed to me something so simple, yet so astounding that i was filled with total peace and have never feared again. and He revealed it to me at a time in my life when i was far, far from God, and wishing I could get close again but afraid that i may have already been turned over to my reprobate mind. and His revelation brought me back.

we can't do anything bad enough for God to turn His back on us other than blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. however, we CAN choose to turn our backs on God. so we can throw our salvation away... we can reject the gift we have already received.

but it doesn't happen by accident. if we reject God, it is a concious act of will on our part... not a temporary "i'm mad and i'm lashing out at God" type thing, but a total rejection of Jesus and indifference to the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

this lines up with the totality of scripture which speaks often of apostacy. i know many people disagree with me, so i'm not going to continue in this thread. i've said what i came to say.

by the way, i currently am a member of a pentacostal church.

Thank you LadyC

I know OSAS is a fundamental Baptist Church teaching and the other alternate can be heard in a Pentacostal church but most denominations I have been to, I have not heard it preached about at all.

I was concerned about losing salvation permanently.

I haven't studied the bible enough to know where my position is with this yet. I've heard the other viewpoint preached but I'm one who checks up what the pastor says and accepts it if I study the bible and see it lines up with it. I also like seeing both viewpoints. I think I'm a pastor nightmare.

Blessings

Natt