Head "OF" or head "OVER" .....

[apothanein kerdos]

Nice try, but I've caught you five times now, but only called you out twice. It's not character assasignation.

The fact is, you've plagiarized.

[OopsMartin]

I'm gonna post some of my comments from the previous thread that went ignored. Maybe there can be some clarity here.

Also there is a difference between value and authority. What is it that cant be understood about authority. Am I of more value than my children, I most certianly am not. But I do have an AUTHORITY over them. Likewise with my wife. I have an AUTHORITY as the head of our family. This authority is GOD-GIVEN. It is to be EXERCISED UNDER GOD'S LEADING. I am not to be a dictaitor but a steward. One who cares for, and leads my family under God ruling.

This truly is not a thread about feminism, but a thread about not desiring to submit to the God-given authority.

Do you sumbit to the police when they come down the street with there lights on.....does this make you of lesser value?

ruck, you ask some good questions. But can we organize these questions a bit.

Where do you think that God originally gave men authority over women or wives?

[Emily~Anne]

A.K. writes:

[OopsMartin]

There is a reason why I say this.

If I say from creation you will say no, then give a 3 page thesis on why not. If I say Gen 3:16 you will likewise to the same.

I have not desire to do this; I just would like these simple questions answered...from the spirit according to God's thought.

Ruck, everything from the Spirit according to God's thought is found in Scripture. So if you sincerely believe that Creation gives men male dominion, then you should be able to show this in the actual Scripture. Same with Gen. 3:16. Now I have discussed what my understanding of Gen. 3:16 is, which is not prescriptive but descriptive, but I have not discussed Gen. 1 or 2 and the creation of man and woman.

So, do you wish to start the ball? or shall I just answer what I assume you might say?

[OopsMartin]

Were using the 1828 Webster's dictionary now? Well, you've opened up a whole new world then! Let's see how this dictionary defines the word 'head' shall we?

That only works if the origin of the word comes from the Greek word, kephale, which it doesn't. I was correcting the assumption that the latin origo did NOT encompas a meaning of source or origin.

But thanks for the infomation. Perhaps, we can use some of that later on in the discussion. That must have taken a bit to type.

[OopsMartin]

I meant speak from your spirit brother...this is God's dwelling place. Also, can you answer the question

Did God place the husband as the delagated authority in the household...yes or no? Thats all it is without all this and that. Is a simple question.

I can answer that Ruck, but then I am going to go on and discuss the questions I asked you, that you haven't answered.

Today I was driving to an appointment and came to a small canary finch, a baby that hadn't yet learned to fly, in the middle of the street. Yes, I'm a bird watcher. Well, I just couldn't go on and leave the dear thing there. So, I got out and vainly tried to catch it. I've a bad limp so have trouble getting any agility to catch it, so failed. One man and one woman stopped to cheer me on as I coaxed it to the curb and a patch of grass. As I was getting back in the car, a neighbor and his father came out and asked if it was a bird. I told them yes, it was a baby bird but I couldn't catch it. They said they were going to go catch it and feed it till it was ready to fly. I cheered them on and drove on to my appointment.

As I drove on I thought about this verse:

26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all[a] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

The words used are weyirdu (have dominion) and wekhivshuah (subdue). The type of dominion and influence God is speaking of that humanity is to exercise is one of nurturing and caring for. I can research those words later. (the info is from the Complete Biblical Library-Genesis)

What impressed me with my little moment was how so many men stepped up to care for this little innocent helpless creature in the road. Course myself and the two men are Christians. But I believe we lived that Scripture this morning.

Now Gen. 3:16 uses the word 'yimshal-bakh where God is warning the woman how her man will respond to her. (the info is from the Complete Biblical Library-Genesis) This is a harsh rule, nothing like the shepherding, nurturing caring that all humans are commanded to exercise toward the creatures of this earth.

So, your question? Do I think that God delegated some kind of authoritative rule of the husband over the wife? Good heavens no. God doesn't even want us to exercise that kind of rule over the animals of this earth. Why should we men be such toward that one whom God would bless us with as our most intimate soul mate and help for this life?

And of course, I will discuss why I don't see that in Scripture as this thread progresses.

[Emily~Anne]

Thank you for participating in the rescue of a helpless creature. I do believe God wants us to care for them, and there is another verse that attests to that (see my signature), but I am not so sure that is what those verses in Genesis meant. First of all, that was before the fall, how much help did creatures need then?

In the future, see if you can locate a wildlife rehabber, and take the critter in need of help to them. (or suggest this to the person who catches the critter) 911 can help you locate a wildlife rehabber.

[OopsMartin]

Thank you for participating in the rescue of a helpless creature. I do believe God wants us to care for them, and there is another verse that attests to that (see my signature), but I am not so sure that is what those verses in Genesis meant. First of all, that was before the fall, how much help did creatures need then?

In the future, see if you can locate a wildlife rehabber, and take the critter in need of help to them. (or suggest this to the person who catches the critter) 911 can help you locate a wildlife rehabber.

Why thank you Emily. Never heard of a wildlife rehabber. And didn't know that 911 would take such a call. I will remember that.

I see that you found my favorite Proverb verse. I recollect that the Hebrew says that the righteous man loves the soul or life of his beast. Where the tender mercies of the wicked lead him only to provide the barest essentials of food and shelter (and sometimes barely that) the righteous man sees that his beasts are healthy and happy. that is my take. And I try my best to live it.

But I think you are missing the depth of Gen. 1:26-28 if you think that God was only speaking of their time in the Garden. Don't you think that God knew what the outcome was going to be? Look at it this way. God gave Adam and Eve and thus all humans two jobs. One, subdue and have dominion (sherpherding, caring, nurturing dominion) over all the creatures. Two, be fruitful and multiply filling the earth with their own kind. They didn't really begin their job until after they were kicked out of the Garden.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

The chain of command seems simple enough. God first whom the husband is subject to as his head, the wife is subject to the husband (and God of course), and the children subject to mom,dad, and God..... Not too hard. None is above the other, but we are called to submit to those who have authority over is. For a woman to disobey her husband is to dishonor God as well. And so on down the line.

The part about women disobeying their husbands doesn't always hold true. I believe God wouldn't want me to obey my ex-husband as he is a career criminal and a drug addict. Anyway, grown women aren't children and, if they help support the family and do half of the work, they should not be subject to a man's will. Men are not, in any way, automatically suited to the job of head of the family.

Yet God did put them as the leaders.....just look in the bible. Deacons were to be man of one wife. Did you not have the word "obey" in your vows. Not to th point to disobedience to God, but as a general rule.....Women are not to have authority over a man plain and simple. This is Gods setup....not mine

[firehill]

So, your question? Do I think that God delegated some kind of authoritative rule of the husband over the wife? Good heavens no. God doesn't even want us to exercise that kind of rule over the animals of this earth. Why should we men be such toward that one whom God would bless us with as our most intimate soul mate and help for this life?

My options to bold, italicize, and underline have been turned off. I don't know why. They stopped working since sometime I was posting in that other thread on husbands and wives...

'God doesn't even want us to exercise that kind of rule over the animals of this earth.'

The world just turned upsidedown.

No that's the Spirit of God I know.