Immigration Bill a piece of *Garbage*

[apothanein kerdos]

You can't fix a thing until the border is secure. You can't deport these people, but you can't keep allowing the people to come in.

It's like New Orleans - nothing could be fixed or cleaned in the city until the flow of water was stopped.

I see your point and I do agree. I just think this issue is not as black and white as people think, and there is no quick-fix.

It's not just letting them in and getting them out. Mexicans aren't the only illegals we have. We have got to find a way to stop them from succeeding over here.... then they'll have no reason to be here.

We can make our money where it is extremely difficult to forge... Why can't we do that with the ID's? Right now, I know of 6 different places within the Atlanta perimiter where illegals can purchase - relatively cheaply - fake social security cards, fake driver's licenses, fake birth certificates and fake alien registration cards. You can't tell these from legit ones.... this is part of the problem..... We can't hold employers (or anyone else) responsible until there is some system in place to verify the validity of these documents!

I don't care if they succeed over here - this is America, they should succeed. The system is, in theory, designed for success.

The best long term solution is:

1) Build a wall

2) Massive immigration reform that allows willing immigrants who have no criminal background to become citizens and work here

3) Offer tuition benefits to Mexican students at US universities and then have them return to Mexico.

If you can increase the education of Mexico, help de-corrupt the government, and begin to institute a form of controlled capitalism to their society, people would no longer want to come here. I've been to Mexico, some of its poorest parts in fact - the only way to make America less appealing is to ruin America. All people should be against that idea...so the better solution is to help Mexico grow and become a competitor with the US in terms of jobs.

[apothanein kerdos]

Deporting them all is just absurd and unethical.

Ok, I get that it's absurd for several reasons... but how is it unethical?

They've helped build their community, established a job, made something of themselves, a majority have paid taxes...in other words, we're telling them, "Look, even though you've been a model citizen, because you came here illegally you have to go."

This is America, a land of opportunity. It goes against the entire idea of America to kick people out who are trying to make a better life for themselves.

[childofthegreat_i_am]

You can't fix a thing until the border is secure. You can't deport these people, but you can't keep allowing the people to come in.

It's like New Orleans - nothing could be fixed or cleaned in the city until the flow of water was stopped.

I see your point and I do agree. I just think this issue is not as black and white as people think, and there is no quick-fix.

It's not just letting them in and getting them out. Mexicans aren't the only illegals we have. We have got to find a way to stop them from succeeding over here.... then they'll have no reason to be here.

We can make our money where it is extremely difficult to forge... Why can't we do that with the ID's? Right now, I know of 6 different places within the Atlanta perimiter where illegals can purchase - relatively cheaply - fake social security cards, fake driver's licenses, fake birth certificates and fake alien registration cards. You can't tell these from legit ones.... this is part of the problem..... We can't hold employers (or anyone else) responsible until there is some system in place to verify the validity of these documents!

I don't care if they succeed over here - this is America, they should succeed. The system is, in theory, designed for success.

The best long term solution is:

1) Build a wall

2) Massive immigration reform that allows willing immigrants who have no criminal background to become citizens and work here

3) Offer tuition benefits to Mexican students at US universities and then have them return to Mexico.

If you can increase the education of Mexico, help de-corrupt the government, and begin to institute a form of controlled capitalism to their society, people would no longer want to come here. I've been to Mexico, some of its poorest parts in fact - the only way to make America less appealing is to ruin America. All people should be against that idea...so the better solution is to help Mexico grow and become a competitor with the US in terms of jobs.

I'm sorry... I misunderstood.... You DO want to reward them for being over here illegally -- as long as they obey the rest of the laws?

[artsylady]

"My whole point is that it's ridiculous how people get so upset about illegals "taking our jobs" when a CEO will nix 5,000 jobs in one day in order to increase his salary and stock."

It's not against the law to for a CEO to lay off workers to increase his salary. It's against the law for illegals to a) live in the U.S. b) work in the U.S.

[apothanein kerdos]

You can't fix a thing until the border is secure. You can't deport these people, but you can't keep allowing the people to come in.

It's like New Orleans - nothing could be fixed or cleaned in the city until the flow of water was stopped.

I see your point and I do agree. I just think this issue is not as black and white as people think, and there is no quick-fix.

It's not just letting them in and getting them out. Mexicans aren't the only illegals we have. We have got to find a way to stop them from succeeding over here.... then they'll have no reason to be here.

We can make our money where it is extremely difficult to forge... Why can't we do that with the ID's? Right now, I know of 6 different places within the Atlanta perimiter where illegals can purchase - relatively cheaply - fake social security cards, fake driver's licenses, fake birth certificates and fake alien registration cards. You can't tell these from legit ones.... this is part of the problem..... We can't hold employers (or anyone else) responsible until there is some system in place to verify the validity of these documents!

I don't care if they succeed over here - this is America, they should succeed. The system is, in theory, designed for success.

The best long term solution is:

1) Build a wall

2) Massive immigration reform that allows willing immigrants who have no criminal background to become citizens and work here

3) Offer tuition benefits to Mexican students at US universities and then have them return to Mexico.

If you can increase the education of Mexico, help de-corrupt the government, and begin to institute a form of controlled capitalism to their society, people would no longer want to come here. I've been to Mexico, some of its poorest parts in fact - the only way to make America less appealing is to ruin America. All people should be against that idea...so the better solution is to help Mexico grow and become a competitor with the US in terms of jobs.

I'm sorry... I misunderstood.... You DO want to reward them for being over here illegally -- as long as they obey the rest of the laws?

I want to allow them the chance to become citizens. I think they should be fined, but I think the fine should be manageable. I don't see the purpose in punishing them with an exorbitant amount (especially when most have paid taxes) when they're doing what people have done in America since our foundation.

[childofthegreat_i_am]

"My whole point is that it's ridiculous how people get so upset about illegals "taking our jobs" when a CEO will nix 5,000 jobs in one day in order to increase his salary and stock."

It's not against the law to for a CEO to lay off workers to increase his salary. It's against the law for illegals to a) live in the U.S. b) work in the U.S.

Yes... they're both wrong.... but they're two seperate issues.

[apothanein kerdos]

"My whole point is that it's ridiculous how people get so upset about illegals "taking our jobs" when a CEO will nix 5,000 jobs in one day in order to increase his salary and stock."

It's not against the law to for a CEO to lay off workers to increase his salary. It's against the law for illegals to a) live in the U.S. b) work in the U.S.

That wasn't the point. Giaour said that illegals steal jobs. I was saying that if someone is going to object to illegals stealing jobs (which they don't, it's a myth), then they need to be just as vocal about CEO's firing people (which they do, it's not a myth).

[Giaour]

Stealing is taking something that you are not allowed to take.

Illegals are not allowed by law to take jobs away from Americans because they have no legal right to be here.

CEOs may have no MORAL right to fire people but it is completely legal.

[childofthegreat_i_am]

I want to allow them the chance to become citizens. I think they should be fined, but I think the fine should be manageable. I don't see the purpose in punishing them with an exorbitant amount (especially when most have paid taxes) when they're doing what people have done in America since our foundation.

My final thought and then I'm out for the night.....

I know, personally, about 65 illegal immigrants. I worked with them at a large company where they were our exclusive labor staff.

They worked hard and did a job that no american citizen I know would do. Of them, I believe 4 to have been legal. NONE of them paid taxes. NONE of them received welfare. The only laws I ever knew of them to break was driving without a license and possession of fake ID's. The reason they drove without a license is because in GA you can't get one if you're illegal unless it's fake. They do a pretty thourough job of verifying identity before granting licenses here. How do you decide what laws sends them home and what laws result in a fine?

The fact is that they can come over here legally. They can apply for a work visa like everyone else with permission can. They choose not to follow our country's laws when they cross that border.

There is no quick fix. There is no way to solve this problem without a huge expense in some way and without making an entire group of people angry in the process.

[artsylady]

"There is no quick fix. There is no way to solve this problem without a huge expense in some way and without making an entire group of people angry in the process."

I agree with that.