Cold or Hot

[Guest shiloh357]

i like to look at scripture. i dont base my beliefs off emotions or how great it sounds.

History testifies of this also. What do you find the problem with this explaination?

i dont have issue with the history.

however, to say Christians are suppose to offer "refreshment or edification" like cool water and vice versa is just

symbolism not supported by scripture. not to my knowledge.

as i said...it sounds great.

this is Christ saying "i wish you were refreshing or i wish you were healing but instead your a fraud"

that does not have scripture support.

im not arguing the history but the "healer or refreshment" are not actions of what a Christian is supposed to do.

we provide the word. God heals. God refreshes through it.

Yes, God refereshes us but we called to edify one another (Eph 4:20, 1 Thess. 9:11) and the gifts are given to aid us further in edifying the body of Messiah 1 Cor. 14: 5, 12) Reshment and edification are really two ways of saying the same thing. They speak to the building up and strengthening of the weary. Very biblical and very much expected of the Christian. You need to study more instead trying pick at hairs like you do. It is a practice in futility.

[exrockstar]

i like to look at scripture. i dont base my beliefs off emotions or how great it sounds.

History testifies of this also. What do you find the problem with this explaination?

i dont have issue with the history.

however, to say Christians are suppose to offer "refreshment or edification" like cool water and vice versa is just

symbolism not supported by scripture. not to my knowledge.

as i said...it sounds great.

this is Christ saying "i wish you were refreshing or i wish you were healing but instead your a fraud"

that does not have scripture support.

im not arguing the history but the "healer or refreshment" are not actions of what a Christian is supposed to do.

we provide the word. God heals. God refreshes through it.

Yes, God refereshes us but we called to edify one another (Eph 4:20, 1 Thess. 9:11) and the gifts are given to aid us further in edifying the body of Messiah 1 Cor. 14: 5, 12) Reshment and edification are really two ways of saying the same thing. They speak to the building up and strengthening of the weary. Very biblical and very much expected of the Christian. You need to study more instead trying pick at hairs like you do. It is a practice in futility.

i do study and question.

however youre view/interpretation is weak.

don't come off at me like youre sitting on a high horse because youre not.

youre just sitting on a miniature one.

thanks.

[apothanein kerdos]

How is his view weak? Use historical background and text indicators to show how it's weak.

[exrockstar]

How is his view weak? Use historical background and text indicators to show how it's weak.

I am asking for scripture and there is none. Great analogy. Great tie in but it's weak because it should be confirmed through scripture.

I am agreeing with background but calling "weak" the stance.

I am not saying it's wrong but I am asking for strength. If the interpreter gets frustrated and fails to present strength

then i'll let the rest cheer but i'm not.

Here is something i posted before about the same church so I hope you can follow it with your bible.

You dont have to agree but I strengthen my stance.

*********************

Rev 3:17 is definately the attitude of an arrogant church that has prospered financially (or uses material/worldy things to define blessings or success) .

When Christ says that they say "I am rich..." is

talk of a person/people that are egocentric. Thus bringing in spirtual "blindness" (also tieing the production of eye salve they supplied).

this is a Church that is criticized for the things that they do (prosperity defined by dollars and self). With that we can sort out the rest of the pieces.

Rev 3:17 "knowest that thou art naked:"

example of a weak stance: "theyre naked because while the people thought they had things they really never did."

strong stance: "God was revealing to them that they were spiritually naked. God could see their nakedness in heaven.

God said "YOU ARE NAKED."

2 Corinthians 5

1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved,

we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

Exodus 20:20-28

24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine

oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.

25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.

26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.

Christ is addressing this church that has lost spiritual prosperity and have exchanged it to material prosperity. Plus they feel that

it's God blessing them.

The Exodus verses I just placed shows that God wanted an altar built using the beautiness of the earth that He created.

If a man layed a tool upon it would cause the man to feel as though the altar was designed to his (man's) pleasing. This

outshined what God has created which was the dirt, rocks, earth, etc. Man tends to we think we know what is better for God or the church.

we see that in some aspects of our beliefs, attitude and in these threads. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[exrockstar]

i do study and question.

however youre view/interpretation is weak.

don't come off at me like youre sitting on a high horse because youre not.

youre just sitting on a miniature one.

thanks.

I"m sorry brother but what are you talking about. Shiloh and AK explained something that history testifies of. What makes no sense (and I was guilty of it before) is to assume that Christ is speaking of believers and unbelievers.

I never said that. these letters are to believers.

These letters are to the Church. How is it that the Church which is the Body of Christ can have some one who does not believe. That person would not be counted as part of the Body. Now having said that.

As Christians we should be profitable thru Christ to God. We should bring refreshment and/or healing thru the Life of the Word. Which means we must live and speak Christ so that others may be deeply touched by Him. If we have no refreshing or healing qualities, then what are we good for. 'You are' "thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men". It's not about sounding good, but about Life.

we are salt of the earth. Matthew 5:13

Salt is a healing element/quality.

However, is hot water also a healing substance? if so...fine. show it through scripture.

I read the historical aspect and i am commending it but the tie in is weak.

however, if you feel it is strong then fine.

Is this a thread that I cannot ask questions?

I never said it was wrong. All i did was question.

Brother reject this if you want, but these brothers dont speak from themselves concerning it. They are speaking from the historical context in which Christ is speaking. These are Christ' words, it would benefit you to agree. Also have you look up any thing on Laodicea. If not why dont you do that first then read what Christ has to say and have allow His Word to speak to your spirit. Untill then dear brother be careful what you cast away.

i think points have been made. i dont mean to astry from the thread.

I pray God blesses it.

[Floatingaxe]

You are either a "hot water" Christian who brings healing, a cold water Christian who offeres refreshment and edification, OR you are lukewarm (not serving God, but rather living in enmity with God). Lukewarm "Christians" are frauds, and that is exactly how Jesus pictures them.

that sounds great but can you provide scripture to strengthen your position. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

It sounds great because it's true.

i like to look at scripture. i dont base my beliefs off emotions or how great it sounds.

It IS scripture. It is based on historical and geographical fact. Look it up. The understanding is not elusive.

[firehill]

You are either a "hot water" Christian who brings healing, a cold water Christian who offeres refreshment and edification, OR you are lukewarm (not serving God, but rather living in enmity with God). Lukewarm "Christians" are frauds, and that is exactly how Jesus pictures them.

that sounds great but can you provide scripture to strengthen your position. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

It sounds great because it's true.

i like to look at scripture. i dont base my beliefs off emotions or how great it sounds.

It IS scripture. It is based on historical and geographical fact. Look it up. The understanding is not elusive.

Sorry exrockstar, but the answer you seek cannot be found (therefore provided by Shilo357) by scripture alone. The reason is because scripture was never meant to address what you fathom it could....as if the time of man never changes...Do you really think that God has addressed ALL THINGS FOR man in scripture? He's the ever changing entity. Laughable.

Be real man. Shilo357 has something for ya. We've alot to learn...

[Guest]

O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;

Psalms 63:1

[Guest shiloh357]

do study and question.

however youre view/interpretation is weak.

Yet, you are impotent to demonstrate said "weakness." Evidently, you have a pet view or interpretation, and prefer it over what was presented. That is fine. You can believe what you want. But if you are going to say that what I have presented is "weak," then the onus is on you to demonstrate that where the evidence simply cannot support what I have said.

don't come off at me like youre sitting on a high horse because youre not.

youre just sitting on a miniature one.

Would you like some cheese with that whine???

However, is hot water also a healing substance? if so...fine. show it through scripture.

I said that hot water has healing/cleansing properties. Anyone knows that (At least anyone who doesn't let their pride get in the way). I don't have a verse that comments on hot water but anyone knows that hot water is used to kill germs and disease causing bacteria. It is was always used in the days when women would give birth. It is used to clean an infected would along with the application of anti-biotics. Hot water does not "heal" per se, but it promotes healing and contributes to an environment where healing can take place.

So it is not a far stretch for Jesus to say that he wishes for them to be like hot water. All of us (and we seem to fall far short so often) should be like hot and cold water in that we should promote an environment where healing, restoration, spiritual cleanliness, edfication and refreshement can take place in the body.

[tsth]

Dear shiloh and exrockstar,

If I could comment, I just want to say, that I can most certainly understand exrock's concern. For me, especially after coming out of realizing that I had put too much stock in what "I've heard" regarding Scriptures, rather than just reading the Word for myself, and taking God's Word for what it says, I too, would rather regard Scriptures in light of what they say, with regard to "exactly what is said". In other words, I don't put much stock into what was taking place historically, because then in essence we could do that with much of the text, rather than viewing the Scriptures as applicable for any time and any "place", or people. If you get into the subject of what that particular city was like geographically, then you are limiting the text, to ONLY that particular place and people, and I, like exrock, don't believe that the Word is designed to work that way. I believe it should read as applicable for any people, and any geography. When we limit it by saying what the water conditions were, then we're in essence limiting the meaning of the text for a world of people. I can appreciate exrock's need for Scriptural proof of the meaning, as I would prefer that as well. shiloh, I do think it is helpful to understand some historical background, but not always. For, me, this is not much different than applying different teachings with regard to women and culture (can o worms opening) because of the place, time and location. For, me I would rather take the teaching of the text as It says, rather than making assumptions based upon historical fact, and yes, I am sure what you are saying is "fact", but it still does not make it any easier for me to accept the hot and cold issue in the same manner that you do. But, I don't see it as an issue that should be divisive.

Just hoping that you could at least see what is troubling to me, (or exrockstar). It is not personal.

In His Love,

Suzanne