Ovedya Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Is this a joke? The ASSUMPTION God exists, that translates into belief, not fact. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamCurrentlyUnableToBelieve Posted August 5, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/02/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2007 Is this a joke? The ASSUMPTION God exists, that translates into belief, not fact. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted August 7, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted August 7, 2007 On the other hand, stating that as most people have a theistic view, the burden of proof is on the atheist is both a misunderstanding of the concept of burden of proof, and a logical fallacy by appeal to numbers. If everyone in the world but me believed that the Sun revolves around the Earth, it would not change the fact that our Solar System is indeed heliocentric. Interesting that you should bring that up, since only a handful of astronomers in Galileo's time believed that the solar system was heliocentric. The burden of proof was upon Galileo and his constituents to prove their case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted August 7, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted August 7, 2007 On the other hand, stating that as most people have a theistic view, the burden of proof is on the atheist is both a misunderstanding of the concept of burden of proof, and a logical fallacy by appeal to numbers. If everyone in the world but me believed that the Sun revolves around the Earth, it would not change the fact that our Solar System is indeed heliocentric. Interesting that you should bring that up, since only a handful of astronomers in Galileo's time believed that the solar system was heliocentric. The burden of proof was upon Galileo and his constituents to prove their case. Surely you would not feel that the Catholic Church was justified in asserting a geocentric system? You cannot shift the burden of proof to someone lacking in your positive assertion, even if they are in the minority on your isolated forum. Galileo vs. the Catholic church is not the issue. It's an example which you used in response to me. I was merely pointing out that, in a geocentric world, Galileo had the burden of proof. It is actually a similar situation: In a world of theists, the burden of proof is upon the atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted August 7, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted August 7, 2007 There is no burden of proof. The Bible is there for anyone to review. Each one of us can either accept what it says as truth, or discard it. Accepting it does not force a burden of proving it onto the believer, nor does the denial of it place a burden on the one who does. Open it, research it a little, and then make a decision. Blame no one for your decision. t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted August 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted August 8, 2007 There is no burden of proof. The Bible is there for anyone to review. Each one of us can either accept what it says as truth, or discard it. Accepting it does not force a burden of proving it onto the believer, nor does the denial of it place a burden on the one who does. Open it, research it a little, and then make a decision. Blame no one for your decision. t. Correct, assuming no one then goes around telling others "This is true, and it is the only truth. Accept it or be cut off from the One True God for all eternity." Can't help it, though. It's one of the things God commands us to do, and I make no apologies for it. We can, however, do it in a way which does not cause us to be a stumbling block for others. There's no sense in beating someone over the head with something that I believe in. I can present the Gospel and let others decide if they wish to accept it. That's all we are charged to do. Everything else is up to the individual, or should be, anyway. t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Archaeologist Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Would any atheist care to discuss Truth with me? Firstly, we must agree on a definition of truth. Here is mine. Ruth I haven't had time to read all the posts, but your premise is impossible to achieve so this whole discussion is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted September 7, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 7, 2007 "Can't help it, though. It's one of the things God commands us to do, and I make no apologies for it." I especially make no apologies for it to atheists who frequent a Christian message board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted September 7, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 7, 2007 Truth is NOT relative. That is an oxymoron. It's called truth because it is the TRUTH. It can't be relative. Five witnesses may see a car accident and have a different interpretation of what happened. If truth is relative, they're all right??? I don't think so. Even though they may all be beleiving their version to be true, they can't all be. Yet the truth of what really happened does exist. Let's not make this concept of truth something that it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted September 7, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 7, 2007 "I used to be a Christian until not long ago, When I Decided to actually think about God instead of blindly following." Seems you've made your decision prematurely based on wrong thinking and information. " I read the bible and I looked deep inside of myself and I felt no God." Sometimes I don't feel God either. That doesn't mean he doesn't exist. "I see evidence of God nowhere. " Take a look out your front door. Look at the sky - the sun, the clouds, the sky. Take a look the ground, take a closer look at the ground - you might see a colony of ants working hard together in a perfect system with a queen leading the way. You might see some flowers that are alive and working harmoniously with the sun, the rain, bees etc. Imagine what you can't see - the atmospheres around earth that are invisible and make it habitable for life to thrive. Now imagine a beach in cuba and a brilliant sunset with waves. Think about the tide, that is controlled partly by the moon that washes everything dead in the sea away in perfect timing, again, preventing the water from becoming stagnant. Imagine the colourful fish in the ocean, some deep down that even light up, some that are enormous blowing water through their blowholes. Imagine a waterfall, a huge tree in oregon big enough to drive through. Picture a stampede of lemmings running off a cliff - mass suicide - that's their way (survival of the fittest??) Think of the balance between nature and life and the earth - also known as the miracle planet. Now imagine that it all came together one day as a dot smaller than a pinhead, and that the entire universe, the billions of species, nature, waves, tides, moon, stars, every plant etc. etc. etc. etc. started out with because of...... that one tiny dot. Now, I ask, HOW do you do it? "There are no eyewitness reports of anything god did outside the bible," Historians have also recorded some of these stories. "as a matter of fact there is no reports of jesus outside the bible either. " yes there are a number of them actually. One, from a Jewish source, said that Jesus spent time in Egypt where he gained 'magical powers'. Even this Jewish person who didn't see him as God's son, knew of his powers and wrote of them. "Personnally my opinion of religion as a whole is that it was made to keep the uneducated masses in control and people flocked to it because they were/are insecure about what happens after they die. " I'll bump up a thread called a 'massive conspiracy theory" based on the Bible and how it came together just as you say above and how impossible that really is. I hope you will read it and then respond. "My atheism is based on observations that i have made and is in no way a belief" What observations have led you to a belief that there isn't a God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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