Two-year-old becomes youngest ever girl in Mensa

[DarkNebulaWelder]

i fail to see anything truly remarkable. so she's a gifted child... so what?

Well, what's remarkable is that she is a member of MENSA. To be a member at that age you have to take and pass a test, which she obviously did. I know because I took my first MENSA test at age 6 and passed. She has an IQ of 153 (I think it said), which is just shy of being a genius by most scales. At 6 my IQ was somewhere around 140, so this kid is beyond gifted. What she becomes--a normal little girl or a freak--will be determined by her parents. MENSA for me made it possible to learn at levels beyond other children my age. My parents elected to keep me in regular schools (although there were private). I was never kept "out of the loop" and always had friends. It's not the brains, it's the raising of the child that is the determinative factor.

marnie, i respectfully have to disagree here.... it's not entirely the raising of the child that is the determinative factor. i raised both my girls with the same standards. it has a great deal to do with a child's personality, how the child perceives themselves, and how their peers, teachers, and other people in their lives react towards them.

could i have done some things differently? probably. but i did what i could like every parent does.

You seem to have a strong foothold in parenting, LadyC.

I commend that!!!!!

[DarkNebulaWelder]

i fail to see anything truly remarkable. so she's a gifted child... so what?

Well, what's remarkable is that she is a member of MENSA. To be a member at that age you have to take and pass a test, which she obviously did. I know because I took my first MENSA test at age 6 and passed. She has an IQ of 153 (I think it said), which is just shy of being a genius by most scales. At 6 my IQ was somewhere around 140, so this kid is beyond gifted. What she becomes--a normal little girl or a freak--will be determined by her parents. MENSA for me made it possible to learn at levels beyond other children my age. My parents elected to keep me in regular schools (although there were private). I was never kept "out of the loop" and always had friends. It's not the brains, it's the raising of the child that is the determinative factor.

marnie, i respectfully have to disagree here....

i'm not trying to be offensive, i just think iq scores are overrated.

That's certainly your prerogative. And IQ scores are overrated, however, there are those that need societies like MENSA just to be able to fit in with their peers; they teach the common sense and life skill that those with extremely high IQ's seem to lack. A lot of members are like savants. I think that's what I meant by "the raising," this kid's parents did the right thing hooking her up with them. Believe me, having a high IQ is just as bad as having a very low one. Both can be very dysfunctional without the special treatment these societies provide. Intelligence is not always a blessing nor does it mean you are smart.

[DarkNebulaWelder]

Okay, I re-read something I wrote and I see my brains once again got in the way of what I meant to say. LadyC, you are no doubt a good mother and I regret one of my posts may have suggested otherwise. I had edited that post way down because it was getting too long and hence I gutted the whole point of the post in favor of brevity. I in no way meant to suggest you were anything but a good mother; what I was trying to say was that all things being equal a child with special needs, when given special consideration, has a very good chance of growing up "normal," and I dislike that term but it seems to fit here. Of course, it is up to the child to take that consideration and make it work for them. Some children do, others do not. I know one child who was a member with me is, last time I heard, was in and out of rehab because he can't hold job, can't stay married and has pretty much ruined his life. This is why I say that a high IQ often can cripple a person, depending on a variety of things; parenting being one and temperament being another. I am highly socially inept, although not nearly to the extent of my friend. His parents are wonderful, but his temperament, and the fact that he doesn't have Christ I am sure is a contributing factor, got in the way of his being able to integrate into society.

Anyway, all that is a lengthy way to say I'm sorry coming across the wrong way earlier. I was going to PM this to you, but you deserve better, so....

Hi, Marnie;

I do respect your opinion on this matter, but I'm sorry to have to disagree vociferously with you on this point.

Don't you feel that a person should take personal responsibility for his/her actions, rather than blaming the IQ if he/she messes up?

This seems like a rather defeatist attitude to me, bordering on fatalism....like, if you are intelligent, you are doomed to wonder aimlessly and disconnectedly through society your whole life. Like if you make any mistakes, it wasn't your fault, but the fact that you had to live with this "cursed" IQ level.

I'm sorry....I'm not trying to discredit you, or make light of this situation, but it appears to me that everyone, even the highly intelligent, should take responsibility rather than pawning the blame onto something else (parenting, social factors, intelligence level)...then yelling "check mate."

It appears to me that that's what a lot of highly-intelligent people tend to do. Instead of saying "I've made bad choices..I messed up," they say "Well, it's not my fault. I am just gifted. No one understands me."

This, to me, seems a cop-out. Nature or nurture?

I do realize that society does not foster intelligence as it does other gifts, and that the gifted certainly have more trouble "fitting in," but does that alleviate them from personal responsibility?

[DarkNebulaWelder]

ROFL marnie, that reminds me of something i just have to share!

when rana was a kid, she was all upset one day because someone at school had called her a retard. this is what i told her to tell the boy who had insulted her...

a retard is someone who is mentally challenged. "intelligence" is the measure of one's ability to learn, while "smart" is the ability to put what you've learned to good use... one is something you're born with, the other is something you cultivate. tell that boy it's a shame he lacks the intelligence to know the difference.

Oooh...LadyC, you may want to be careful there.

When I was a kid, I made some boisterous remark like that, and got laughed at even more.

When kids don't understand something, they will tend to mock....because they don't understand, they deem it as folly.

I secretly hope that your daughter did show that kid off, though.

Name-calling can be quite devastating.

[DarkNebulaWelder]

Well if counting things is an OCD thing, then I have alittle OCD myself!

If OCD is wrong, I don't want to be right.....but it's not like I'm gonna obsesss about it if I'm wrong....I don't have to be right all the time, do I?

Who says I'm wrong, anyhow? It's not like I'm obsessed over it!!!

Who are you calling obsessive?

No, I'm not obsessing...I didn't want to be right, anyhow!

HEY....didn't I just close that droor?

WHO SAYS I'm obsessive?

You're the one who's obsessive...over me being obsessive!!!

Close that droor already, would you!!!!!!

[DarkNebulaWelder]

Well if counting things is an OCD thing, then I have alittle OCD myself!

Ever count your steps walking through Wal-Mart? Or count all their doors, both inside and out? Or how many fluorescent lights are suspended from the ceiling? How many are blue and how many are white and how many are not working? Or how about how many notes are in Amazing Grace? Now that's we geniuses do for fun. Pathetic.

I can count my toes.

Is that obsessive?

(lol)

[DarkNebulaWelder]

AWWW....that's just mean.

Of course you can join, Marnie, if you REALLY want to!!!!

As for a name?!

HMMMM...How about "DENSA"

hahahaha

Thats a good one.................................

So, then, do I get to be treasurer?

I'm not obsessed over money....I promise

[Marnie]

Hi, Marnie;

Don't you feel that a person should take personal responsibility for his/her actions, rather than blaming the IQ if he/she messes up?

This seems like a rather defeatist attitude to me, bordering on fatalism....like, if you are intelligent, you are doomed to wonder aimlessly and disconnectedly through society your whole life. Like if you make any mistakes, it wasn't your fault, but the fact that you had to live with this "cursed" IQ level.

I'm sorry....I'm not trying to discredit you, or make light of this situation, but it appears to me that everyone, even the highly intelligent, should take responsibility rather than pawning the blame onto something else (parenting, social factors, intelligence level)...then yelling "check mate."

It appears to me that that's what a lot of highly-intelligent people tend to do. Instead of saying "I've made bad choices..I messed up," they say "Well, it's not my fault. I am just gifted. No one understands me."

This, to me, seems a cop-out. Nature or nurture?

I do realize that society does not foster intelligence as it does other gifts, and that the gifted certainly have more trouble "fitting in," but does that alleviate them from personal responsibility?

To answer you first point, I am most definitely a believer in personal responsibility. Regardless of a person's station in life, he is responsible for his decisions, both good and bad. No, you can't blame everything on poor potty training. A child is not born a blank slate; they have a G-d-given temperament which is molded by the world around them as they grow up. But regardless of their upbringing, ultimately they are responsible for the state they find themselves living in.

Now, having said that, there are children with special challenges at both ends of the "intelligence spectrum," and both extremes need special attention. Nature may have dealt these kids a difficult hand to play, but nurture can turn the tide in their lives. And without a doubt the presence of Christ can make a difference as well. I think in extreme cases there are adults who are in fact "lost" because of the way they were raised; I believe this to be rare, however.

I work with Autistic kids, for example. In my group I have some very high functioning kids who are easily teachable and have a clear concept of right and wrong behavior. But in the same group I have a couple who have absolutely no clue about society's expectations. They engage is bad behavior, you tell them to stop, they stop and five minutes later they are back at it. But, they did what you told them to do initially: they stopped. You see? But here's the kicker; they are both savants, in once case he plays the piano like concert pianist never having taken a lesson. The other one has a photographic memory and can remember every factoid he reads. They appear "normal" until they are alongside other kids or until the bad behavior takes over. Both have Christian parents and are being raised in fine homes. I believe with the right kind of intervention (behavioral modification perhaps) these boys will be OK as adults but unless a miracle occurs they will never hold a job or have normal relationships. Can you blame the parents for this? Or me? Or the boys themselves? Sometimes things aren't always as black and white as we'd like them to be.

[Scarletprayers]

I agree Marnie......................personal responsibility becomes a moot point in certain situations, mentally handicapped, special needs in either direction, or highly intellectually. I can't imagine the heartache involved with being a child with the mind of a grown up. Children are cruel, and eat their own kind that don't fit in. Then this "child" becomes an adult and has no concept how to fit in or live socially with others. Sad!

[ColleenLovesMischief]

I had the added bonus of enduring outright torture in school from my peers. They were destroying my property, and even the teachers would laugh about it. I didn't realize at the time that this would be a lifetime scar, and am still quite paranoid of some situations, and some peope to this day. My 9 year old son is an Autistic. As long as you are talking about something he loves he will carry on a conversation (it may go in circles though). I have been waiting for the public school system to fail him as well (and they are well on their way). So far (he is entering 4th grade) they have managed to keep the tourment from him, but they have failed him educationally. They refused to believe his diagnoses of Autism, and only based what he should be doing from his IQ level which is in the high 90's. Because he scores "normal" they wanted to treat him the same as the other children. Shame is that doesn't work. He doesn't handle change like another child would. They actually called childrens services saying he was recently diagnosed (I and they have his diagnoses papers on file from 2000). Even they were shocked that the school had outright ignored his diagnoses, and my insistances to at least look into it. I am only givig them a month this upcoming school year to prove they can handle him properly. The school knows this as does children services. If they cannot handle him he will come into the homeschool realm.