Adam's Responsibility?

[firehill]

Also I'm still waiting for an answer from you as to the purpose of Adam having to be accountable to Eve telling her what God prohibited HIM alone from doing (Gen 2). Why would Adam have to tell her, 'God commanded me not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.'?

It is rather funny that it has been taught that way. But how could God have been telling Adam what both of them were to do when Adam didn't have any idea that God was going to create a mate for him. And of course God could not tell him that because that would ruin the lesson that God was going to teach him by naming all the animals. well duh!

[tsth]

[What I would like you to do is show the context of these two verses and 1 passage providing that the husband has authority over the wife. For example, since the bible says that the husband is the head and you take this to mean 'authority' then the context will support this meaning if it is true and it will do so by describing this 'role of authority'. So show me the context then that supports what you think 'head' means that way. How does Paul describe the husband as head in Eph 5? How does he describe the man as head in 1 Co 11? Does he describe this 'headship' as authrority over? Regarding Titus 2:1 the husband as head isn't even mentioned but maybe you can show me where the husbands authority is spoken of anyway. I would like to see this context. You cannot be in agreement with Scripture if you cannot provide a supporting context and if you cannot provide a supporting context then your argument is from silence.

Dear firehill,

I don't think you are reading Titus 2? The husband as head is even more clearly emphasized within Titus 2.

Titus 2:1 You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine. 2 Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance. 3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4 Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.

Here is what the above means:

Original Word Word Origin

uJpotavssw from (5259) and (5021)

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Hupotasso 8:39,1156

Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech

hoop-ot-as'-so Verb

Definition

to arrange under, to subordinate

to subject, put in subjection

to subject one's self, obey

to submit to one's control

to yield to one's admonition or advice

to obey, be subject

A Greek military term meaning "to arrange [troop divisions] in amilitary fashion under the command of a leader". In non-military use,it was "a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assumingresponsibility, and carrying a burden".

How can there be ANY question regarding the role of the wife to the husband? If you go back and look, I have posted several passages OF SCRIPTURE that reinforce this? Using the term above. So if you have contention over the teachings, maybe it is with the Author rather than myself?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[firehill]

Regarding Titus 2:1 the husband as head isn't even mentioned but maybe you can show me where the husbands authority is spoken of anyway. I would like to see this context. You cannot be in agreement with Scripture if you cannot provide a supporting context and if you cannot provide a supporting context then your argument is from silence.

Dear firehill,

I don't think you are reading Titus 2? The husband as head is even more clearly emphasized within Titus 2.

How is it that the husband as head is even more clearly emphasized in Titus 2 WHEN his 'role' as head is NOT even mentioned? I see the wife's submission to a husband mentioned but I see nothing about the husband being the head mentioned. To show me a responsibilty of the wife is not showing me the responsibilty of the husband. The wife's submission does not = husbands headship. The two cannot be equated.

Titus 2:1 You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine. 2 Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance. 3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4 Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.

How can there be ANY question regarding the role of the wife to the husband? If you go back and look, I have posted several passages OF SCRIPTURE that reinforce this? Using the term above. So if you have contention over the teachings, maybe it is with the Author rather than myself?

THERE IS NO QUESTION regarding the 'role' of the wife to the husband! Under question is the husband's 'role' to the wife. See the difference? You've shown me nothing about the husbands 'role'. Nothing. Zilch. If your ideas of marriage are lined up with scripture than you should be able to show me the author's describing the husband's role as 'authority over'. Make sense? You've shown me where the author describes the 'role' of the wife, but I want you to show me where the author describes the husbands 'role'.

[tsth]

I have clearly shown you these things in Scripture, But I will do this one last time, then after that, we are into contentious arguments:

Do you understand the role of Christ Jesus to His Bride? Then you will understand the role of a husband to a wife. That is why the passages are stated the way that they are. He is the example:

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Rhonda Lou]

Was Adam initially responsible for conveying to Eve God's commands? Especially with regard to the tree and not to eat from it? Is man/husband responsible for the spiritual condition of his home/wife/children?

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. 2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created. When the Lord God made the earth and the heavens-- 5 and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no man to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground-- 7 the Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 And the Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground--trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. 10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates. 15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

*Adam's instruction from God, regarding which tree is acceptable and not acceptable, was given BEFORE Eve was even created, so was Adam responsible for sharing the instruction with his wife?

I am reminded of these passages:

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

In His Love,

Suzanne

This might not answer the exact question, but whether Adam should have told Eve, or God should have told Eve, SOMEBODY told Eve, because when the serpent asked her, "Did God really say you must not eat any of the furit in the garden?" her response was, "Of course we may eat it," the woman told him. It's only the fruit from the tree at the center of the garden that we are not allowed to eat..." (Genesis 3:1b-2a) So, she knew she was sinning when she ate of the fruit.

Rhonda Lou

[firehill]

I have clearly shown you these things in Scripture, But I will do this one last time, then after that, we are into contentious arguments:

What a wife is instructed to do does does not tell me what a husband is instructed to do. In other words, how does Paul describe a husband as being the head? What is he instructed to do as the head?

If I write the sentence, 'wives submit to your husbands' am I writing anything about what husbands should do? No. I'm only writing about what wives should do.

Do you understand the role of Christ Jesus to His Bride?

Yes, I do. I also understand that there is a difference between the Lord and a husband.

Then you will understand the role of a husband to a wife. That is why the passages are stated the way that they are. He is the example:

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.

Here, Paul is instructing wives to do something but he is not instructing husbands to do something.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.

Here the husband is said to be the head of the wife AS Christ is the head of the church. The husband is not said to be the head of the wife AS Christ is the LORD of the church. The terms 'head' and 'lord' are two different words in Greek and English.

24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Here again Paul is talking about what wives are to do but he is not talking about what husbands are to do. I've been asking this whole time for you to show me what paul says husbands are to do.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

SEE! Right here Paul is talking about what husbands are to do. This is what I've been asking for. Do you see anything here about Paul telling about husbands to exercise authority over there wives? Paul is instructing husbands to do something. What is it? Is it compared to Christ and the church.

26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

This is what Christ did NOT the husband because Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her TO MAKE HER HOLY, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word.

27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

This is why Christ gave himself up for the church, TO PRESENT HER as a radiant church.

28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies.

In the same way, husbands are instructed to love their wives. This is an example of what I've been asking you to provide for me. Therefore as Christ loved the church and gave up himself husbands are to do the same thing. SACRIFICE, not RULE. Do you see authority mentioned in there in regards to what the husband is suppose to do OR do you see that he is too sacrifice himself in love for his wife?

He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Here Paul sums up the wife's submission as 'respect.'

The church came out of Christ (the mystery) as woman came out of man. This is why Christ and the husband are the heads and as the head, a position of sacrifical love, love them. 'Headship' is rooted in creation of the woman coming from the man. On the other hand rulership is rooted in the fall.

[firehill]

This might not answer the exact question, but whether Adam should have told Eve, or God should have told Eve, SOMEBODY told Eve, because when the serpent asked her, "Did God really say you must not eat any of the furit in the garden?" her response was, "Of course we may eat it," the woman told him. It's only the fruit from the tree at the center of the garden that we are not allowed to eat..." (Genesis 3:1b-2a) So, she knew she was sinning when she ate of the fruit.

Rhonda Lou

Also Eve said, that God told them that they were not to eat of it or touch it. She was deceived when she ate. She was deceived once the serpent lied to her. I'll go get the passage. So Eve wasn't deceived when she told the serpent what they could eat and what God had told them. Then the serpent lied and Eve believed it which v6 shows.

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

[Massorite]

Yes it was Adams responsibility to make sure the his wife was told of those conditions and even after Eve eat of the fruit Adam could have stopped the curse if he had choosen not to eat of the fruit. Re-read the story and you will see that after Eve partook of the fruit her eyes were not opened to the fact that she was naked. But it was only after Adam partook of the fruit that both of their eyes were opened to the fact that they were naked.

[firehill]

Yes it was Adams responsibility to make sure the his wife was told of those conditions and even after Eve eat of the fruit Adam could have stopped the curse if he had choosen not to eat of the fruit. Re-read the story and you will see that after Eve partook of the fruit her eyes were not opened to the fact that she was naked. But it was only after Adam partook of the fruit that both of their eyes were opened to the fact that they were naked.

We've another element of the account of the fall brought up which I've not seen discussed. Thanks for bringing it up.

First though, can you explaine how it is that Adam was responsible for telling Eve, 'God told me that I must not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.' No one has been able to answer my question. I ask because this is what is recorded that God told Adam not to do. On the other hand, God told them both not to eat or touch because Eve said that God told them both.

Now the account tells us that both there eyes were opened but it doesn't mention her eyes opening intell after Adam ate. Adam though was the one who rebelled and sinned which was different from Eve by having been deceived fell into sin (1 Tim 2).

even after Eve eat of the fruit Adam could have stopped the curse if he had choosen not to eat of the fruit.

What would have happened if only Eve fell into deception and Adam did not listen to her voice and break God's command?

[exrockstar]

What are the roles and will you show me the biblical descriptions of what 'his role' entails. I wanna hear the the descriptions given from the bible.

start reading proverbs.

Ch 1 verse 1 and read it on through.

if i start picking at new testament scriptures then you may not feel as content as reading something in its "fullness."

Proverbs is a good book.

Hey exrockstar..... are you really an ex-rockstar? who did you play with/for?

Proverbs is a great book and every man loves to tell women to read Prov. 31. It paints a great picture of a wife.

However, I don't think that was what firehill is asking or needing. Perhaps, spelling out how you think certain Scriptures should be applied would work better. But keep in mind that we are talking about ADAM'S responsibility, not Eve's. And I'm not even convinced that Adam's responsibility rolls onto all men.

im a little confused on firehill. as a matter of fact i respect whatever she decides to believe or practice.

its not like im going out with the girl.

however, scripture is scripture and a lot of the view points of the bible seems as a threat or politically incorrect

for todays time. whatever floats any ones boat.

at the end she doesn't hurt me...i can care less.

Adam sacrificed animals and so did abel and caine.

if she doesnt recognize that then it's not on me but on her.

yes i was in a band. rock hip hop; signed and had Sony distribution. We played with big bands

but never got that huge break. we had fun, toured and made money. good times.