Adam's Responsibility?

[firehill]

God created Adam from the dust of the earth. Eve, He formed from Adam. When God brought Eve to Adam, Adam said: "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh." Therefore, to the extent that Adam took responsibility for his own physical body and its well-being, by these words he is also taking responsiblity for Eve's physical body and well-being. And that was the way God intended, otherwise He would have created Eve from the dust and not formed her from Adam, and Eve would then have been fully physically independent of Adam. Since Adam acknowledged Eve as his own body, and he knew that death was the penalty that his body would bear for eating from tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then it can legitimately be inferred that Adam made known to Eve all instructions from God concerning THEIR body.

Ruth

This does not accept God's command as He gave to the man. God did not give his command to the man's FLESH. (What it is this a form of nosticism??) Now what you've said above is a flat out distortion of inspired scripture. Also you've not provided your defense from scripture other than guess work and assumptions therefore your defense is one of silence. Prove from scripture that God commanded the man's FLESH. If we take God's command for what it says and don't add or subtract (this is btw what you are doing to God's word) then it is easy to understand what he commanded the MAN and no one else.

Now what I want you to do is stop inferring and prove your defense from scripture itself. Remember it will establish itself in what it says.

Firehill,

Why not stop beating around the bush. Why do you not just straight out with it and tell us what you are trying to prove by Scripture that is over and above, or under and beneath, the plain meaning of the words we read and which would be received by a child on first reading? That way we can all save a lot of typing.

Ruth

I'm not beating around the bush. Why don't we just take God's word for what it says? The plain meaning of the words of the command God gave TO Adam alone are plain and easy enough to accept for anyone and so anyone can receive them. Now to turn around and start adding to the command God gave to the man (like, God gave the command to the man because he was the leader and therefore he was to tell Eve, even though the command wasn't TO Eve, and even though the bible says nothing of the sort or something like, God commanded the man's FLESH) just because we hold to traditional beliefs about men and women is to distort scripture since such a defense AGAINST scripture is one made out of silence. And that's pretty much the only defense one can give when going against scripture and not accepting it.

Now if we take God's word for what it SAYS and THEN go to the next verse (allowing it to stay in it's context) to see what it ALSO SAYS we would then be letting the BIBLE itself speak to us and establish itself (that is how true doctrine is built) regarding the topic of the OP. Make sense?

How hard is it to JUST LET THE BIBLE SPEAK (even the plain meaning of God's command TO the man alone)? It has the floor not our presuppositions or dearly held traditions.

NOW brick one is laid. The first brick of the foundation is the command God gave TO Adam and TO Adam alone. This fact of scripture cannot be altered, changed, added to, misconstrued, misunderstood (for it's soo simple) or rejected.

What's the next brick? Since this thread is titled 'Adam's responsibilty', is there a particular verse in Genesis that anyone would like to discuss next?

[Massorite]

Yes it was Adams responsibility to make sure the his wife was told of those conditions and even after Eve eat of the fruit Adam could have stopped the curse if he had choosen not to eat of the fruit. Re-read the story and you will see that after Eve partook of the fruit her eyes were not opened to the fact that she was naked. But it was only after Adam partook of the fruit that both of their eyes were opened to the fact that they were naked.

We've another element of the account of the fall brought up which I've not seen discussed. Thanks for bringing it up.

First though, can you explaine how it is that Adam was responsible for telling Eve, 'God told me that I must not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.' No one has been able to answer my question. I ask because this is what is recorded that God told Adam not to do. On the other hand, God told them both not to eat or touch because Eve said that God told them both.

Now the account tells us that both there eyes were opened but it doesn't mention her eyes opening intell after Adam ate. Adam though was the one who rebelled and sinned which was different from Eve by having been deceived fell into sin (1 Tim 2).

even after Eve eat of the fruit Adam could have stopped the curse if he had choosen not to eat of the fruit.

What would have happened if only Eve fell into deception and Adam did not listen to her voice and break God's command?

There are so many different versions of the bible out there tese days that I think that we sometime are in disagreement because we are reading from two different versions. I read from the Companion Bible whic is supposed to be the authoerized version of 1611 but I have discovered that it is actually a version that was authorized and re- written in 1629. In 1611 there were words used and spelled differently that are not in my bible. So with that in mind here is what my version says about what Eve said to the serpent. Gen.3:2&3 "And the woman said to the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden" 3 "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden God has said , 'You shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it unless you die".

The best that I can tell is that nowhere in these two verses did Eve say that God spoke to her directly about the tree or the fruit. Actually it looks kind of open ended. It could have been God that spoke to her directly or it could have been Adam. I live by the principle of the fact that if it is not written in the bible it is not. So since these verses do not say specifically that God spoke to directly. I am going to hang with the fact that Adam was the one who told her not to touch the fruit or the tree because we know that somebody told her.

I don't know what might have happened if Adam hadn't eaten the fruit but I do believe that Adam and Eve were ment to live for ever when they were created.

Edited July 16, 2007 by Massorite

[OopsMartin]

Would you be very insulted if I confine myself to the Word of God and the guidance of the Holy Spirit? You see, I have a brain-damaged daughter who can barely comprehend the essentials of salvation let alone be required to consult a website to verify her understanding of the plain meaning of Scripture. If you don't mind too much, I shall just stick with what the inspired translation of Scripture in the KJV offers, because they were godly men, even if not the greatest grammarians, and therefore I trust God that He has given me in the English language a reliable version of His word that I neither need to check by reversion to the original languages nor to learn how to correctly understand via a website. I have this cute kind of belief ( to use an Americanism) which is that the Holy Spirit will guide into all truth, and not a website.

Ruth

If you had been sticking to the Word of God and the guidance of the Holy Spirit I wouldn't have suggested that you learn proper exegesis. But that facts are that what you are likely calling "guidance of the H.S" is nothing more than your own preconceptions guiding you. Sticking to the Scriptures means not adding in things not there and not inherent in the Scripture. It also means paying attention to the inspired language used in the original manuscripts. It also means taking into consideration the historical aspects..... all of which you've been doing precious little of.

However, nuff said. You will do what you want to in the end. Sometimes, in fact often, people choose to learn the hard way. I was truly offering you friendly help. It's an excellent website for learning how to study the Word.

[OopsMartin]

There are so many different versions of the bible out there tese days that I think that we sometime are in disagreement because we are reading from two different versions. I read from the Companion Bible whic is supposed to be the authoerized version of 1611 but I have discovered that it is actually a version that was authorized and re- written in 1629. In 1611 there were words used and spelled differently that are not in my bible. So with that in mind here is what my version says about what Eve said to the serpent. Gen.3:2&3 "And the woman said to the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden" 3 "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden God has said , 'You shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it unless you die".

The best that I can tell is that nowhere in these two verses did Eve say that God spoke to her directly about the tree or the fruit. Actually it looks kind of open ended. It could have been God that spoke to her directly or it could have been Adam. I live by the principle of the fact that if it is not written in the bible it is not. So since these verses do not say specifically that God spoke to directly. I am going to hang with the fact that Adam was the one who told her not to touch the fruit or the tree because we know that somebody told her.

I don't know what might have happened if Adam hadn't eaten the fruit but I do believe that Adam and Eve were ment to live for ever when they were created.

It couldn't have been Adam relating it to Eve. When God spoke to Adam, God said that Adam was not to eat of the tree. Adam would not have said that God said "they" couldn't eat of the tree, when God said only to Adam that Adam could not eat of the tree. Adam was too pure and undefiled to play with words like that. We cannot compare Adam in his purity to ourselves who dwell in the presence of sin.

Same thing goes for Eve. She said that God said "you" (plural), which included her, are not to eat or touch the tree. She wouldn't have said God said it if Adam had said it. And Adam wouldn't have said "you" plural because God didn't say "they" to Adam because God had not yet told Adam that He was going to create another human for his companionship.

Do you see the problem?

[firehill]

Yes it was Adams responsibility to make sure the his wife was told of those conditions and even after Eve eat of the fruit Adam could have stopped the curse if he had choosen not to eat of the fruit. Re-read the story and you will see that after Eve partook of the fruit her eyes were not opened to the fact that she was naked. But it was only after Adam partook of the fruit that both of their eyes were opened to the fact that they were naked.

We've another element of the account of the fall brought up which I've not seen discussed. Thanks for bringing it up.

First though, can you explaine how it is that Adam was responsible for telling Eve, 'God told me that I must not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.' No one has been able to answer my question. I ask because this is what is recorded that God told Adam not to do. On the other hand, God told them both not to eat or touch because Eve said that God told them both.

Now the account tells us that both there eyes were opened but it doesn't mention her eyes opening intell after Adam ate. Adam though was the one who rebelled and sinned which was different from Eve by having been deceived fell into sin (1 Tim 2).

even after Eve eat of the fruit Adam could have stopped the curse if he had choosen not to eat of the fruit.

What would have happened if only Eve fell into deception and Adam did not listen to her voice and break God's command?

So with that in mind here is what my version says about what Eve said to the serpent. Gen.3:2&3 "And the woman said to the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden" 3 "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden God has said , 'You shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it unless you die".

The best that I can tell is that nowhere in these two verses did Eve say that God spoke to her directly about the tree or the fruit. Actually it looks kind of open ended. It could have been God that spoke to her directly or it could have been Adam. I live by the principle of the fact that if it is not written in the bible it is not. So since these verses do not say specifically that God spoke to directly. I am going to hang with the fact that Adam was the one who told her not to touch the fruit or the tree because we know that somebody told her.

I don't know what might have happened if Adam hadn't eaten the fruit but I do believe that Adam and Eve were ment to live for ever when they were created.

Good post. I like your post. Especialy the part where it says, 'I live by the principle of the fact that if it is not written in the bible it is not.' Very commendale.

1. Did you know that in Gen 1:29 the prohibiton is encompassed in what God told THEM (plural 'you' in hebrew) they could eat?

2. Eve said that God said, 'YOU (plural you again in the Hebrew) must not eat or touch. She quoted God using the plural 'you.' Eve didn't speak about what God told Adam because she quoted what God told THEM.

3. 'She wouldn't have said God said it if Adam had said it.' (Oopsmartin, )

4. You've still not answered my question. Why would Adam have been responsible for telling Eve, 'God commanded ME not to eat of the tree'?

Oh yeah, you contradicted yourself here:

I live by the principle of the fact that if it is not written in the bible it is not.

I am going to hang with the fact that Adam was the one who told her not to touch the fruit or the tree because we know that somebody told her.

What fact?

[Guest]

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 3:16

"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Romans 5:17-19

Or were you just exercising your authority as a man?

Real Men

Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

Psalms 46:10

Dear Ruth - You Go Sis!

Dear Worthy Family - You Are A Blessing - Be Blessed Beloved Of The King

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[firehill]

Okay, swell. One who believes men have authority by virtue of their manhood wouldn't have a man give a recommendation and then another laughs at the idea of men exercising authority, so in essence then a real man doesn't exercise authority by virtue of his manhood. Were're learning alot in this thread aren't we!

Have a laugh on me!

[OopsMartin]

Okay, swell. One who believes men have authority by virtue of their manhood wouldn't have a man give a recommendation and then another laughs at the idea of men exercising authority, so in essence then a real man doesn't exercise authority by virtue of his manhood. Were're learning alot in this thread aren't we!

Have a laugh on me!

Ahhh but you've forgotten

[firehill]

Okay, swell. One who believes men have authority by virtue of their manhood wouldn't have a man give a recommendation and then another laughs at the idea of men exercising authority, so in essence then a real man doesn't exercise authority by virtue of his manhood. Were're learning alot in this thread aren't we!

Have a laugh on me!

Ahhh but you've forgotten

[firehill]

K-plunk. Brick one:

16"You (hebrew singular) are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

We're looking at creation to see if Adam had a spiritual responsibility over Eve. We know that he wasn't responsible for telling her, 'God told ME not to eat of the tree.' He didn't then have any authority to tell her God's command since it was given TO HIM ALONE.

What's another brick in the foundational teachings of Genesis? Maybe we wanna look at WHY the woman was created? Was she created to be led? Was she created to be under Adam's authority? What do the scriptures say? We have to begin with what the scriptures say and work from there.

K-plunk:

18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."