Scientific Evidence for God?

[Guest]

No proof for any of them including the creator so how can we be sure which is the right one.

Faith

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Hebrews 11:6

Look Up

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Psalms 19:1

Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

See Jesus And Be Blessed

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Joe

[ted]

Maybe I'm missing the joke, but how could nothing but an increase in temperature create the missing ingredients?

t.

[ted]

Maybe I'm missing the joke, but how could nothing but an increase in temperature create the missing ingredients?

t.

The Planck temperature is the maximum possible temperature, for reasons that I forget. It's the temperature at the big bang, when matter could not exist, only pure energy. From this energy, came all the matter we know. ..so enough to bake a cake with.

Ahh, ok.

I guess mine is a philosophical point. Although this Planck temperature may create all the stuff, I would think that it wouldn't be smart enough to bring all the ingredients together in just the right amounts, and then place it in an oven at just the right temp for just the right amount of time. A random imperfection would result in anything less than a cake.

With out the Cook's hand and intelligence, the ingredients simply remain dormant.

Bring that now to the situation at hand. Can it be true that we simply live in a time of unbounded age, a spot of eternity, where we are lucky enough to be at this point in history by a combination of chance, precise chemical bounding, accurate temperature, and electricity?

The time we live in is but a small bump in the scale of eternity. Time marches on regardless of our status. Is all this now just randomness in action and we happen to be fortunate enough to be here?

Maybe, I guess, but I vote that there is a Divine Creator behind all of it, and we are simply not informed enough to describe the situation with enough accuracy to satisfy everyone. Jesus came to make up for that lack of knowledge, and God sent Him.

That's how I see it anyway.

Thanks,

t.

[kari21]

Theories other than The Big Bang, i.e., The string theory, the multi-verse theory, the expanding/contracting universe, are nothing but theoretical...all theory with no hard scientific proof behind them.

So, you are left with a universe that created itself from nothing...or a universe that was created by an intelligent creator...

There's also the idea that out universe could come into existence as a result of two other universes colliding against each other. So you have the options you outlined and the one i said and they are all theories. No proof for any of them including the creator so how can we be sure which is the right one.

You are only pushing back the problem. You would then have to explain where those "two other universes" that spawned ours came from.

[kari21]

Maybe I'm missing the joke, but how could nothing but an increase in temperature create the missing ingredients?

t.

The Planck temperature is the maximum possible temperature, for reasons that I forget. It's the temperature at the big bang, when matter could not exist, only pure energy. From this energy, came all the matter we know. ..so enough to bake a cake with.

You then need to explain where this energy came from. Big Bang Cosmology can only go back as far as the singularity. All else is guesswork.

[Guest]

If I were to ask you to bake me a cake using ingredients I gave you, and you said sure, and I handed you NOTHING, could you bake the cake?

I might be able to, if your oven goes up to the Planck temperature, yes!

From memory, that's about 1,400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 degrees (real ones, not that Fahrenheit nonsense).

You heat up the oven, I'll bake the cake...

How Do You Transfer Energy (Heat) From One Body Or System To Another Body Or System Due To A Difference In Temperature When You Have No Bodies (Mass) Or Systems Or Ovens Or Cake Or Temperatures (Energy) Or Differences Or Time Or Anything?

In physics, heat, symbolized by Q, is energy transferred from one body or system to another due to a difference in temperature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat

You Don't.

How Could Nothing Be Separated Into Matter And Energy And Time And Lions And Tigers And Bears Oh My!

By The WORD Of The LORD

But I am the LORD thy God, that divided the sea, whose waves roared: The LORD of hosts is his name.

And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

Isaiah 51:15-16

The Same One Who Died For Your Sins

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

Who Endured The Cross

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Hebrews 12:2

Who Shouts Over His Beloved

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Says Come

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Revelation 22:17

See Jesus And Be Blessed

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel, and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Joe

[The Lorax]

You are only pushing back the problem. You would then have to explain where those "two other universes" that spawned ours came from.

Kari, I should point out that we theists are subject to the same ontological dilemma as naturalists.

We say God created everything, and that God has ALWAYS existed.

By the very same logic that we apply to God, a naturalist could say the singularity ALWAYS existed, and that would make equal sense.

In that respect, everyone is on a level playing field. (And then faith comes in.)

[Jorge S]

Dave's s anti-theistic and pseudo-scientific claptrap version of Darwinism is (he insists) a process that it is "not just randomness" but in the real world we all live in it really is just a "process of randomness", a process that has no purpose in mind. Darwinists (including those on this board) become anxious as they see the collapse of their "theory" as people begin to loose their faith in mythologies they were taught to be science, realizing upon closer examination that those mythologies were not science at all. Thinking people realize the counter-intuitiveness that is required to believe that random processes gave rise to highly-organized biological structures through godless chance.

amen

but what's really saddening are those who cliam to honor Christ by mixing Biblical truth with human religious speculations, mis-labelled "science" (which sounds impressive, and allows them to comfortably fit in with the world system, but is a false claim)

Amen to both.

[Jorge S]

whenever I look at the beautiful intricacies of a snowflake, and wonder at the incredible patterns god created by letting a simple water molcule RANDOMLY join with its companions I wonder how people think god is NOT powerful enough to do His design similarly with the much more complex carbon molecule.

I read some time ago a rebuttal to that example. As far as I can remember the issue relies on differentiating order from specified complexity. Crystals represent order -low information sequences that yield repetitive, symmetrical, non-random patterns. As the water of your snowflakes adopts a lower energy state by low temperature, its molecules organize according to physical laws and each fragment of the whole is still the same thing. The complex molecules of life (DNA, proteins) represent high information systems organized in random patterns that yield specific instructions and cannot create themselves purely from physical laws because its constituents do not polymerize spontaneously. When broken, both the information and function are lost and the fragments are not a representation of the whole.

note we are unnatural, ...

What!?

[Jorge S]

... but why do Christians feel compelled to bow-down before this same Darwinian model?

Thanks for that question. It's been troubling me since I started participating in Christian Boards 3 years ago. I thought that once we overcame the question of WHO the issue of HOW would gravitationally fall in place unhindered. But it's not the case. I find instead Christians using the same arguments I used as a Marxist before my conversion.

The answer is in Mat 24:24 - For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders; so much so that, if it were possible, they would deceive even the elect.