Women pastors

[st. Worm]

i think oprah would make a good pastor.

Exactly, an unbeliever who wants to do things her own way - typical woman pastor.

Excuse me, Worm, but are you saying the typical female pastor is an unbeliever who wants to do things her own way? Oh....yeah...I see. You DID say that! What do you base this on??? Whether there SHOULD be female pastors or not, this is very offensive to the woman who preach the Word. Typical male intolerance. (Oh, did that make me sound as biased as you??? )

A harsh generalization? Perhaps but it thoroughly sickens me what these feminists have done to destroy some very large denominations. I could care less if I offend them. I assure you they offend me much more with their support for things like abortion and gnosticism. But of course we must be politically correct and not speak out against them.

sw

[st. Worm]

Really what do 12 Jewish apostles have to do with a woman being a pastor? Jesus came to the Jewish people first and the 12 represent the 12 tribes of Isreal. No contradiction here then with Junia being an apostle.

An Apostle like Paul comes with authority within the church. It would be impossible for Junia (if a female) to carry that type of authority according to what Paul has already said about church authority. Therefore she could not be an Apostle like the 12.

sw

[OopsMartin]

I think I have previously explained why this individual is likely not an Apostle. As I said before but I will gladly repeat, to make Junia a woman apostle in the same sense that the Paul was an Apostle you have to then explain away or ignore the verses that indicate women are not to be in positions of church authority over men which I am sure you are willing to do since they do not fit your model. I note much of what you have referenced is written by women pastors. What a shock.

sw

The problem is that Junia really was a woman and really was an apostle. That fact was never disputed until somewhere around the 13th Century where some fella just couldn't comprehend a woman apostle and so changed the ending so it sounded masculine.

But it isn't just the fact of Junia being a female apostle that causes problems with those 8 greek words in 1 Timothy. We have the fact that no such restriction was ever given in the OT, which is really curious because according to the popular reading the restriction was supposed to have been in effect from the very beginning. This doubly causes one to wonder how it is that there are actual female historical figures who were anointed of God to be in leadership and teaching positions in the OT.

AND then we have another problem. In the same time frame that Paul supposedly is restricting all women from teaching and leading, Paul in another epistle is praising women who were teaching and exercising authority in the church.

Yep, it's a problem all right. There are a lot more sections in Scripture of female leaders and teachers anointed by God to explain away, then there are pieces of Scriptures supposedly restricting them.

[st. Worm]

Nearly all these denominations (ELCA, PCUSA, and others) have fallen into various forms of apostasy, feminism, gnosticism and unbelief. Nearly all are on the verge of ordination of homosexuals. Nearly all have replaced the doctrine of justification and the gospel with a feel good social gospel, a politically correct agenda and liberal politics. All of those practices are the direct result of ordaining women and placing them in positions of church authority. Is this spirit of the anti-Christ so strong in you that you just ignore the reality of where women pastors and church leaders have taken so many?

By ordaining women pastors, in your opinion, all of these churches have turned from the Word? I would have to say that the one denomination that has NO female priests or bishops is the one with the biggest problems today. Would you care to guess which one? BTW, what do liberal politics have to do with the church???

You are completely wrong if you think Rome is in nearly as bad a shape as denominations like ELCA. And liberal politics play a strong role with these denominations with their embracing abortion and homosexual issues. It is no coincidence that their problems started with the ordination of women.

sw

[OopsMartin]

i think oprah would make a good pastor.

Exactly, an unbeliever who wants to do things her own way - typical woman pastor.

Excuse me, Worm, but are you saying the typical female pastor is an unbeliever who wants to do things her own way? Oh....yeah...I see. You DID say that! What do you base this on??? Whether there SHOULD be female pastors or not, this is very offensive to the woman who preach the Word. Typical male intolerance. (Oh, did that make me sound as biased as you??? )

A harsh generalization? Perhaps but it thoroughly sickens me what these feminists have done to destroy some very large denominations. I could care less if I offend them. I assure you they offend me much more with their support for things like abortion and gnosticism. But of course we must be politically correct and not speak out against them.

sw

Blame it all on "feminists". And then call anyone who disagrees with you an evil feminist. Ahh good plan.

There just couldn't possibly be good reasons who so many good Christian scholars are rereading these Scriptures studiously and coming up with questions about the "traditional" popular interpretation. No of course not. Ther're all feminists, the whole lot...... oh and liberal to boot.

Oh, almost forgot, then claim that all these evil feminists (because they disagree with you) must believe in abortion on demand, and are also gnostics

[st. Worm]

I am going to be perfectly honest. I do not know the answer to women pastors. Paul prohibits women from serving as pastors or deacons by the qualifications he gives for the office. However, he later says "there is neither male or female, Jew or Greek." I honestly think that it is a gray area. The more I study it, the more I become torn between the passages. I would like to point out that most of the Churches who enforce "no women pastors" do not enforce "women must remain silent in church." Why enforce one and not the other? The two go hand in hand. If you prohibit women from being pastors, why allow them to speak in church? I see a double standard in the application of Paul's instruction. You can not pick and choose. Either enforce all of Paul's instruction, or enforce none of it. You can not have it both ways.

Paul is not talking about offices within the church when he says there is neither male or female, Jew or Greek in that passage. He is saying salvation is now open for all men and women and that the cross was for all regardless of background, gender or race. Passages discussing qualifications for offices are clear and discussed elsewhere.

sw

[st. Worm]

i think oprah would make a good pastor.

Exactly, an unbeliever who wants to do things her own way - typical woman pastor.

Excuse me, Worm, but are you saying the typical female pastor is an unbeliever who wants to do things her own way? Oh....yeah...I see. You DID say that! What do you base this on??? Whether there SHOULD be female pastors or not, this is very offensive to the woman who preach the Word. Typical male intolerance. (Oh, did that make me sound as biased as you??? )

A harsh generalization? Perhaps but it thoroughly sickens me what these feminists have done to destroy some very large denominations. I could care less if I offend them. I assure you they offend me much more with their support for things like abortion and gnosticism. But of course we must be politically correct and not speak out against them.

sw

Blame it all on "feminists". And then call anyone who disagrees with you an evil feminist. Ahh good plan.

There just couldn't possibly be good reasons who so many good Christian scholars are rereading these Scriptures studiously and coming up with questions about the "traditional" popular interpretation. No of course not. Ther're all feminists, the whole lot...... oh and liberal to boot.

Oh, almost forgot, then claim that all these evil feminists (because they disagree with you) must believe in abortion on demand, and are also gnostics

[firehill]

Really what do 12 Jewish apostles have to do with a woman being a pastor? Jesus came to the Jewish people first and the 12 represent the 12 tribes of Isreal. No contradiction here then with Junia being an apostle.

An Apostle like Paul comes with authority within the church. It would be impossible for Junia (if a female) to carry that type of authority according to what Paul has already said about church authority. Therefore she could not be an Apostle like the 12.

sw

Really? Well then perhaps you can tell me what he said about church authority. Give some scripture to back up what you're saying about church AUTHORITY.

[OopsMartin]

i think oprah would make a good pastor.

Exactly, an unbeliever who wants to do things her own way - typical woman pastor.

Excuse me, Worm, but are you saying the typical female pastor is an unbeliever who wants to do things her own way? Oh....yeah...I see. You DID say that! What do you base this on??? Whether there SHOULD be female pastors or not, this is very offensive to the woman who preach the Word. Typical male intolerance. (Oh, did that make me sound as biased as you??? )

A harsh generalization? Perhaps but it thoroughly sickens me what these feminists have done to destroy some very large denominations. I could care less if I offend them. I assure you they offend me much more with their support for things like abortion and gnosticism. But of course we must be politically correct and not speak out against them.

sw

Blame it all on "feminists". And then call anyone who disagrees with you an evil feminist. Ahh good plan.

There just couldn't possibly be good reasons who so many good Christian scholars are rereading these Scriptures studiously and coming up with questions about the "traditional" popular interpretation. No of course not. Ther're all feminists, the whole lot...... oh and liberal to boot.

Oh, almost forgot, then claim that all these evil feminists (because they disagree with you) must believe in abortion on demand, and are also gnostics

[st. Worm]

Really what do 12 Jewish apostles have to do with a woman being a pastor? Jesus came to the Jewish people first and the 12 represent the 12 tribes of Isreal. No contradiction here then with Junia being an apostle.

An Apostle like Paul comes with authority within the church. It would be impossible for Junia (if a female) to carry that type of authority according to what Paul has already said about church authority. Therefore she could not be an Apostle like the 12.

sw

Really? Well then perhaps you can tell me what he said about church authority. Give some scripture to back up what you're saying about church AUTHORITY.

You cannot be serious. I am not going to repeat what I have posted earlier in this thread. In addition to those, read Paul's qualifications for elder. Good grief.

sw