Women pastors

[Rumple]

joyce meyers is very good.she reaches a lot of people because she is "down to earth".your loss if you don't like her!

preacher, teacher, she beats her competition on this forum by a landslide!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was not aware that sound teaching of God's Word was a "competition". As I said above, when you question women preachers their supporters get very angry. I am trying to help you move away from false teaching and your throw insults.

sw

And what group does not throw insults when their own pet doctrines are brought into serious question? This is the nature of the beast which every man (and woman) is who has not yet overcome their own flesh as Christ overcame His

I hate returning to this thread to answer something so silly. Are you seriously saying this issue is nothing but a thread about "pet doctrines"? Please read my postings concerning the sad consequences incurred by denominations that have ordained women as pastors and then I hope you will have enough sense to upgrade your comment. Also with regard to insults there have been accusations of sexism towards those of us who know the Bible prohibits women from being pastors. Also if you want to hear real insults go into one those churches and and try to discuss the issue. That is not even allowed in those so called open minded churches.

sw

In my experience there have been few, if any, assemblies (churches) which discuss anything pertaining to certain doctrines. If they generally agree with all of your own doctrines well and good. Raise a question about the possible non-existence of a separate devil entity or of the trinity or of the non-existence of eternal torment and most will raise ruckus. Let us not be so much open-minded as Christ minded!

[OopsMartin]

Being a teacher does not make one in authority over the one being taught.

If the preacher/teacher is female, and she is married, she will love and respect and obey her husband as he will her. He will love, guide, protect and praise her name and thank God for her for ever more! She may know more than her husband, as my wife or anothers may know more than we do, but she will not, and does not userp her husbands authority over her or their houshold. Another example;

If, lets say I am a divisional manager of a large corperation, As manager, know everything about the company business, and I am sent to the company organized yearly convention to be updated on the latest stratergy plan, and the speaker is a woman? sent by the corporate director of the said company, to teach me and others on what was required. As my teacher in this matter, would that give her authority over me a divisional manager?? No! All she knows is the latest stragerty of the company, and she is to pass that information on. And neither would she want authority over me and take on all my responsobilities. All she would be doing is tell me, preach to me, teach me and others of what is required and expected of me by the BOSS!

Put God in the bosses position, God sends who He will, and many are women, as Scripture shows in another thread on this board, which some men cannot come to grips with, to teach, preach, as is recorded in Scripture, DOES NOT MAKE THEM IN ANY WAY, IN AUTHORITY OVER MEN! God does not say they are in authority does He? GOD, through the apostles say women are not to be in authority, and neither do they want to be. If they can, and do teach men of the things of God, what is wrong with that, especially if God empowers them to do this?

Its not much of a stretch to say teaching implies authority and teaching God's Word certainly acknowledges real authority. I just don't understand the pragmatic reasoning in this thread. Sure there are lots of women who are exercising authority within the church by teaching and they are not going away but that does not make what they are doing biblical either. There is no way you can divorce teaching from authority.

sw

Hi "Sw"

In Romans 16 we have Phebe, Priscilla, Mary Junia, Tryphosa, Persis, all female names, women mentioned as laborers in the gospel.

In Phil. 4:2-3 we have Euodias and Syntyche, two women who are mentioned as leaders in the local church at Philippi. They are refered to as "those WOMEN which labored with me in the Gospel."

Paul himself states many times these women laboured in the gospel with him. These women were teachers as was Paul, they taught along side Paul. Teachers, but there is never any mention of them ever being in authority over any men, or over Paul.

Being able to teach a man who knows nothing about God, all about God, does not give the teacher any authority over the man being taught.

If I were a Bible expert, male or female, and a King, or President of a powerful nation asked me to teach him about God, would that give me the authority to tell him what he can, should, or should not do?

Labored does not mean to teach.

sw

It's an interesting point... what does "labored" mean, in this context, in your opinion?

they certainly weren't sewing tents or gleaning

Actually they may well have been doing that. Or perhaps they were baking cookies.

Paul himself states many times these women laboured in the gospel with him.

[Rumple]

Again, Let's please dispense with the Red Herrings of Muslim women, Muslim beliefs and get back back to the topic at hand of women CHRISTIAN pastors.

Does anyone remember Rachel as a pastor?

"And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father's sheep: for she kept them." Gen 29:9

Isn't a keeper of sheep a pastor?

Why is it that every verse you women pastor people use to back your position is such an incredible stretch or grotesquely twisted to mean something it does not mean while you ignore the clear verses that oppose you? Unbelievable.

sw

I was not backing anything. I was simply asking a question. You are a bit touchy. I have been on this forum for about two full days and already I am unpopular and classified. Remember:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

This verse applies to me and also to you.

[Rumple]

Again, Let's please dispense with the Red Herrings of Muslim women, Muslim beliefs and get back back to the topic at hand of women CHRISTIAN pastors.

Does anyone remember Rachel as a pastor?

"And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father's sheep: for she kept them." Gen 29:9

Isn't a keeper of sheep a pastor?

No. A keeper of sheep is a shepherd or shepherdess. A pastor is a spiritual overseer. Or does your local sheep farmer call himself a pastor? Attempting to take metaphors and/or symbolism literally can only end in confusion. Jesus says: "how I long to gather you under my wings..." Does that make Jesus a bird? No. Nor does Rachel keeping sheep make her a pastor.

Ruth

Where did we get the English word 'pastor'?

[st. Worm]

Again, Let's please dispense with the Red Herrings of Muslim women, Muslim beliefs and get back back to the topic at hand of women CHRISTIAN pastors.

Does anyone remember Rachel as a pastor?

"And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father's sheep: for she kept them." Gen 29:9

Isn't a keeper of sheep a pastor?

Why is it that every verse you women pastor people use to back your position is such an incredible stretch or grotesquely twisted to mean something it does not mean while you ignore the clear verses that oppose you? Unbelievable.

sw

I was not backing anything. I was simply asking a question. You are a bit touchy. I have been on this forum for about two full days and already I am unpopular and classified. Remember:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

This verse applies to me and also to you.

It did not appear you were just asking a question but if you were then I apologize for misreading you. You said does anyone remember Rachel as a pastor? And then you followed with isn't a keeper of sheep a pastor? Your questions seemed more rhetorical than inquisitive in the context of this particular thread.

sw

[Rumple]

joyce meyers is very good.she reaches a lot of people because she is "down to earth".your loss if you don't like her!

preacher, teacher, she beats her competition on this forum by a landslide!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was not aware that sound teaching of God's Word was a "competition". As I said above, when you question women preachers their supporters get very angry. I am trying to help you move away from false teaching and your throw insults.

sw

And what group does not throw insults when their own pet doctrines are brought into serious question? This is the nature of the beast which every man (and woman) is who has not yet overcome their own flesh as Christ overcame His

I hate returning to this thread to answer something so silly. Are you seriously saying this issue is nothing but a thread about "pet doctrines"? Please read my postings concerning the sad consequences incurred by denominations that have ordained women as pastors and then I hope you will have enough sense to upgrade your comment. Also with regard to insults there have been accusations of sexism towards those of us who know the Bible prohibits women from being pastors. Also if you want to hear real insults go into one those churches and and try to discuss the issue. That is not even allowed in those so called open minded churches.

sw

Well that may be it. There are only a couple of us that have had direct experience on this board with mainline congregations which adopted these false teachings decades ago as a direct response to the sexual and feminist revolutions of the 1960's. I think you and I have seen the long term consequences of this seemingly innocuous idea.

Let

[Rumple]

Sorry, I do not get any of that from Scripture. I would not dance and shout and float about in my home - that is not my nature - so why should I do it in a public gathering such as church? Am I to become a different person, to leave all inhibitions at the church door and just let go and do that (well, copy that, to be honest, because I have no personal inclination) which I would not even do in my own home? The only time I have done that is under the influence of alcohol when all inhibitions were abandoned, of which I am mightily ashamed. Is not one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, self-control? Should I really lose all inhibitions in church and then call it worship?

Ruth

I do not believe that self-control is listed as a fruit of the Spirit. There should be 12 per Rev 22:2. The ones named are probably all found in;Gal 5:22-23, Eph 5:9, Phil 1:11, Rom 5:4, II Cor 6:6, II Peter 1:5-7, Col 3:12.

If anyone is to be in control it is God's Spirit within us. Our own control will lead us to sin every time.

Galatians 5:22-23 (New King James Version)

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control (temperance in the AV, meaning the same). Against such there is no law.

2 Peter 1: 5 - 7

....add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self control, to self-control perseverance, to perserverance godliness, to godliness, brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be nether barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ruth

[Rumple]

Sorry, I do not get any of that from Scripture. I would not dance and shout and float about in my home - that is not my nature - so why should I do it in a public gathering such as church? Am I to become a different person, to leave all inhibitions at the church door and just let go and do that (well, copy that, to be honest, because I have no personal inclination) which I would not even do in my own home? The only time I have done that is under the influence of alcohol when all inhibitions were abandoned, of which I am mightily ashamed. Is not one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, self-control? Should I really lose all inhibitions in church and then call it worship?

Ruth

I do not believe that self-control is listed as a fruit of the Spirit. There should be 12 per Rev 22:2. The ones named are probably all found in;Gal 5:22-23, Eph 5:9, Phil 1:11, Rom 5:4, II Cor 6:6, II Peter 1:5-7, Col 3:12.

If anyone is to be in control it is God's Spirit within us. Our own control will lead us to sin every time.

Galatians 5:22-23 (New King James Version)

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control (temperance in the AV, meaning the same). Against such there is no law.

2 Peter 1: 5 - 7

....add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self control, to self-control perseverance, to perserverance godliness, to godliness, brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be nether barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ruth

Temperance may be synonmous with self-control in some cases, but it is man's self-control that got him into torubl ein the first place. God gave us self-control or free-will, but this also needs to be overcome by His Spirit. We need to surrender to Him so that He has control for only then will all of the battles within each of us be won by God. He never loses battles, but he cannot win if we do not give Him the reins.

The moderation or restraint of the verses above is provided by the Spirit of God as we submit ourselves, not according to our own efforts. We do have the ability to do this ourselves. If we did, then the sacrifice of Christ would have been unnecessary.

[Rumple]

Just passing on information. I have no intentions of trying to sway someones opinion about this issue. I doubt I have the power, only God through the Holy Spirit can reveal the true meaning of His word to those that are open.

Peace,

Amanda

Yep. As long as the Holy Spirit reveals what you want him to reveal everything is cool. Let's just not bother with that bad old sexist Bible since it really doesn't conform to your agenda. After all, the "true meaning" of His word has been revealed to you. Isn't that sort of like Manicheism?

sw

"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing." I Cor 13:2

[Rumple]

It is our new nature in Christ to be demonstrative beofre the Lord in Worship. It is a command. We read in Psalms distinct commands to worship with joy. The word for "joy" means spinning wildly in exuberance and dance. If God does it over us, then the least we can do is rejoice in the same way before Him. It has nothing to do with personality. It has everything to d0po with obedience. God expects it from each one of His kids, personality or not.

A child doesn't hold back his joy upon seeing his daddy come home from a hard day's work. Neither should we withold our joy in His presence. He doesn't withold Himself!

If a shy person can go to a football game and hoot and holler for his or her team, that same shy person needs to hoot and holler for Jesus. He loves it and revels in it.

Amen! The sum total of our being belongs to Him and needs to be given back without restraint.

"But who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able to offer so willingly after this sort? for all things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee." I Chron 29:14

Well so much for Paul's New Testament instruction for orderly worship. But if you want a good example of excessive celebratory worship, check out the golden calf episode. A great time was had by all (for awhile at least).

sw

What part of yourself are you willing to withhold from God if He asks you for it? Did Abraham plan to trick God at the last minute and withhold his son Isaac from Him?