Pope: Creationism, Evolution Not at Odds

[RedNick261]

Creation has a viable scientific method and meaning, the resurrection does not.

what?

Creation can be explained scientifically (as I see it, not as you see it). The resurrection has no scientific explanation, nor could it. A different interpretation could not scientifically justify the text. With Creation, the opposite is true. I know you're not going to agree with me, but you asked, so I expounded.

news flash: the pope is not even a Christian

he's the figurehead of a false religious system, based loosely on Biblical Christianity, which includes damning doctrines such as idolatry (veneration of Mary), substitution of the Pope as the head of the church, not Christ, and salvation by works, in addition to grace

http://www.carm.org/catholic.htm

CARM is OBVIOUSLY a viable source. CARM seeks to discredit anything that it sees as counter to their own small-minded beliefs (sound familiar?). Do I agree with everything about the Catholic church? Far from it. However, you are, once again, trying to play judge of people's eternal salvation. I would recommend that you quit doing that before "what goes around, comes around", comes around.

[RedNick261]

the "millions of years" darwinism fairy tale dominates every society in the world, top to bottom, and satan loves it, as the "author of confusion"

But you said, "ubiquitous naturalistic pagan religious beliefs". Darwinism and Old-Earth Creationism is hardly that.

we gladly accept that title!

You can gladly accept that title under your pretenses; I will simply decline.

[sweetycakes]

the aforementioned beliefs are not even widely believed.

come on!

the "millions of years" darwinism fairy tale dominates every society in the world, top to bottom, and satan loves it, as the "author of confusion"

The Bible is discredited in the eyes of many men because those entrusted to uphold it and interpret it fail to do so and come off as fools

did you read I Corinthians 1? Christians ARE the fools of this world! we are "fools for Christ"! we gladly accept that title! the world used the same label for the prophets and apostles throughout history!

something that was probably never intended as literal cause the lack of respect for the Scriptures.

uh huh...when God spoke the 10 Commandments to Moses, He specifically mentioned the Creation completed in six days (also reiterated several other times, to be sure you got it), but I guess that just wasn't intended!

you're so far off in left field it's

amazing...do you really consider yourself in the faith?

Completely agree with your post, yzf-r1

[Guest]

WHO'S YOUR PAPA?

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

Matthew 23:9

Salvation Or Damnation, It's All About Family

A Family Album

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:11-15

Liar, Liar

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 8:44

A Man Who Would Be Revered.....

Little god Upon his throne

And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne, and made an oration unto them.

And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man.

And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

But the word of God grew and multiplied.

Acts 12:21-24

An Angel Who Would Be Worshiped.....

Little god Upon his throne

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Isaiah 14:12-15

A Family Album

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Revelation 21:1-7

Jesus Saves

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:6

True Worshipers

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

John 4:23-24

Who Is Your Love

The World

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

James 4:4

Or God

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Mark 12:29-31

Believe And Live

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

Be Blessed Beloved Of The LORD

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[hepatocyte]

I don't think the prophets said anything about the speed of light.

[Jorge S]

No one is saying it was or is deceptive, except those arguing for its literality. Allegory is not deceptive unless it is claimed to be literal. You're correct that dismissing the literal interpretation of certain parts of Scripture is necessary to believe the literal interpretation of science, but that does not somehow exclude the viability of those parts of Scripture as allegory. Perhaps, as I've stated a million times before, the point of Genesis 1 and 2 (in particular) was to show the power of God in a way the recipient would understand, not to transcribe the literal happenings of the Creation.

Same rhetoric, no matter how many other million times you'll have to state it. It only shows your particular interpretation which is biased towards evolution. If I ask you why should Genesis be taken as an allegory you will inevitably call upon the testimony of science. The Bible then does not mean what it says or what it plainly states can be safely disregarded.

I do agree with you that Genesis 1 and 2 are about the Creating Power of God, so greatly depicted that notions about billions of years of 'trial and error' to bring us this far can be swept away without remorse.

Where does Scripture claim that exegetical concept? Eisegesis by any other name is still eisegesis. If one "scholar" wants to read something into Scripture so that it will "stand alone" (which it was never meant to do, as John Wesley wisely observed), it doesn't make it fact. If anything, the exegetical principle that "Scripture interprets Scripture" is not exegetical at all. It is simply another account of intellectual dishonesty within the church.

Great subject for a Bible Study. Let's call it something like The Revealed Knowledge of God in an Era of Scientific Skepticism. Subtitle: A Biblical Guide for 21st Century Christians. Source Material: The Bible. Hints:

Rom 10:17

Then faith is

of hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

2Ti 3:16

:

All Scripture

is

God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, ...

Isa 40:8

The grass withers, the flower fades; but the Word of our God shall stand forever

.

Psa 119:160

Your Word is

true from the beginning; and every one of Your righteous judgments endures

forever.

Pro 30:5-6

Every word of God is pure; He is

a shield to those who put their trust in Him.

Do not add to His Words, lest He reprove you and you be found a liar.

Pro 21:30

There is

no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against Jehovah.

Jer 8:9

The wise are ashamed, they are terrified, and are captured. Lo, they have turned away from the Word of Jehovah; and what wisdom

is

in them?

[Jorge S]

By what other method than that described in Scripture could a dead man be raised again to life? There is no other way to describe that. With Creation, it's an entirely different set of circumstances. First of all, unlike the Creation, the resurrection was witnessed by some of the authors of the accounts of the event, Creation was not. Creation has a viable scientific method and meaning, the resurrection does not. They are entirely different animals, other than that they involve a certain amount of supernatural activity, set in course by an Almighty Creator.

'Certain amount of supernatural activity' or the unique power of a Supernatural Being? If suspending the ordinary course of nature in the resurrection of Jesus was a miracle why the creation of nature itself out of nothing does not qualify as such? The lack of human witnesses to the creation event has a unique repercusion: we don't have a way of disproving His report.

Job 38:4 Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell if you have understanding!

Isa 29:16 ...; for shall the work say of him who made it, He did not make me? Or shall the thing formed say to him who formed it, He had no understanding?

Rom 9:20 No, but, O man, who are you who replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him who formed it, Why have you made me this way?

[Jorge S]

how about calling on the testimony of the rocks and the trees ? the testimony of Creation to witness the True power of God ?

Rocks and trees do not speak by themselves. How about revealed truth versus human speculation?

[RedNick261]

No one is saying it was or is deceptive, except those arguing for its literality. Allegory is not deceptive unless it is claimed to be literal. You're correct that dismissing the literal interpretation of certain parts of Scripture is necessary to believe the literal interpretation of science, but that does not somehow exclude the viability of those parts of Scripture as allegory. Perhaps, as I've stated a million times before, the point of Genesis 1 and 2 (in particular) was to show the power of God in a way the recipient would understand, not to transcribe the literal happenings of the Creation.

Same rhetoric, no matter how many other million times you'll have to state it. It only shows your particular interpretation which is biased towards evolution. If I ask you why should Genesis be taken as an allegory you will inevitably call upon the testimony of science. The Bible then does not mean what it says or what it plainly states can be safely disregarded.

I do agree with you that Genesis 1 and 2 are about the Creating Power of God, so greatly depicted that notions about billions of years of 'trial and error' to bring us this far can be swept away without remorse.

Where does Scripture claim that exegetical concept? Eisegesis by any other name is still eisegesis. If one "scholar" wants to read something into Scripture so that it will "stand alone" (which it was never meant to do, as John Wesley wisely observed), it doesn't make it fact. If anything, the exegetical principle that "Scripture interprets Scripture" is not exegetical at all. It is simply another account of intellectual dishonesty within the church.

Great subject for a Bible Study. Let's call it something like The Revealed Knowledge of God in an Era of Scientific Skepticism. Subtitle: A Biblical Guide for 21st Century Christians. Source Material: The Bible. Hints:

Rom 10:17

Then faith is

of hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

2Ti 3:16

:

All Scripture

is

God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, ...

Isa 40:8

The grass withers, the flower fades; but the Word of our God shall stand forever

.

Psa 119:160

Your Word is

true from the beginning; and every one of Your righteous judgments endures

forever.

Pro 30:5-6

Every word of God is pure; He is

a shield to those who put their trust in Him.

Do not add to His Words, lest He reprove you and you be found a liar.

Pro 21:30

There is

no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against Jehovah.

Jer 8:9

The wise are ashamed, they are terrified, and are captured. Lo, they have turned away from the Word of Jehovah; and what wisdom

is

in them?

None of those verses even begin to claim the "exegetical" concept that, "Scripture interprets Scripture". All they say is what I've said from the beginning. I've never questioned the authority or validity of Scripture (the literality of certain parts, yes). I've simply questioned the extra-biblical concept that even Scripture itself doesn't claim.

everything about the way God has acted in the past in creation and judgment tells you it is always sudden, without warning, and leaves you absolutely no question of His power

Strong claim, now prove it.

[RedNick261]

If suspending the ordinary course of nature in the resurrection of Jesus was a miracle why the creation of nature itself out of nothing does not qualify as such?

I, for one, am not arguing the "who" of Creation. I am simply questioning the "how". Creation was a miracle. Something from nothing? Sounds pretty miraculous. But, from there, we have significant proof that (a) the earth is older than 6-10,000 years and, (b) evolution played a significant part in the development of the various species over the course of that time.