Naming the Name of Christ

[Scarletprayers]

Who is "they?" I am also not aware that a doublestandard has been erected.

(What I wam trying to ask is "what do people who have extra-marital relations say to "us" to justify themselves?)

I'm not making myself clear. Let me try again.........

It is disturbing when h's are put in a separate category from all other sinners. How are h's different from people who have extra-marital relations?

And, if there is no difference, than all those who try to justify their extra-marital relations are not Christians either.

And any h's who are convicted but pretend otherwise because the lifestyle is too hard for them to give up. ARE Christians.

Is that any clearer?

This would be an easier discussion to have face to face.

Peace,

F

I get what your saying......................good question! I know some people that have been married 5 or 6 times and divorced the last one, because they were having an affair with the next one. Yet they still attend church and call themselves Christians and the church seems to accept them..............I know we can't know another persons heart but???? I still have to wonder.

[Guest shiloh357]

It is disturbing when h's are put in a separate category from all other sinners. How are h's different from people who have extra-marital relations?

Sorry, but I did not do that. My issue made no difference between what sins are being referenced but how sins are dealt with/responded to. I did not put anyone in a "category." You need to reread my responses.

And, if there is no difference, than all those who try to justify their extra-marital relations are not Christians either.

Exactly. When someone can live, justify and enjoy habitual sin, they need to reexamine the authenticity of their profession of faith.

And any h's who are convicted but pretend otherwise because the lifestyle is too hard for them to give up. ARE Christians.

I don't know of anyone who is under conviction that can pretend they are not. Usually, the Holy Spirit's conviction is extremely difficult to ignore. When you are under conviction it comes out in everything you do.

[Guest shiloh357]

Who is "they?" I am also not aware that a doublestandard has been erected.

(What I wam trying to ask is "what do people who have extra-marital relations say to "us" to justify themselves?)

I'm not making myself clear. Let me try again.........

It is disturbing when h's are put in a separate category from all other sinners. How are h's different from people who have extra-marital relations?

And, if there is no difference, than all those who try to justify their extra-marital relations are not Christians either.

And any h's who are convicted but pretend otherwise because the lifestyle is too hard for them to give up. ARE Christians.

Is that any clearer?

This would be an easier discussion to have face to face.

Peace,

F

I get what your saying......................good question! I know some people that have been married 5 or 6 times and divorced the last one, because they were having an affair with the next one. Yet they still attend church and call themselves Christians and the church seems to accept them..............I know we can't know another persons heart but???? I still have to wonder.

You cannot know their heart, but you can see their fruit.

[Scarletprayers]

Here's where I have a problem with these discussions about whether people living the h(tired of typing the word) lifestyle are really Christian. There seems to be a double standard. Every other sinful lifestyle is not as bad.

Actually Fiosh, I was very careful to make sure that I covered other forms of sinfulness as well. I was rather "across the board" in answering your question.

Your alleged doublestandard is a myth at least where my response is concerned.

I don't think she meant "you" were the one doing it Shiloh, just it seems that alot of conversations here & elsewhere put homosexuals in a different category of sin, than they do others. I must admit, I see/hear it alot.

[Fiosh]

Let's try applying the litmus test to 3 sins: homosexuality(h), extra-marital relations (em), alcohol/drug addiction(a/d)

1. Reject the sinfulness of the lifestyle

h: it's natural; God made me this way; I can't help it, it's the way I am

em: we love each other and it's just like we were married; we're not hurting anyone, there's nothing wrong with it; we're only human

d/a: Its my own business; I'm not bothering anyone; it's my body I can do what I want

2. Fully aware but don't want to give it up

h: I know the Bible says its wrong, but it's who I am

em: we've been together so long, how can we stop now?

d/a: its too late to change, I'll never be able to do it; it helps me cope with my problems

3 Realize it's sinful but can't stop themselves?

h: I'm trying to get out, but its difficult; I've told my S.O. that we can't go on like this, it's not right

em: I'm praying about it, but its hard to fight the temptation; I fail so often

a/d: I've tried to quit so many times but I keep relapsing; I don't know how to stop

So, if I'm understanding you, Shiloh, those folks in situation #1 and #2 are not Christians. Those in #3 are.

Of course, that's very general, assuming their heart is in that place.

Is this what you are saying?

Peace,

Fiosh

[Fiosh]

I don't think she meant "you" were the one doing it Shiloh, just it seems that alot of conversations here & elsewhere put homosexuals in a different category of sin, than they do others.

[Scarletprayers]

Who is "they?" I am also not aware that a doublestandard has been erected.

(What I wam trying to ask is "what do people who have extra-marital relations say to "us" to justify themselves?)

I'm not making myself clear. Let me try again.........

It is disturbing when h's are put in a separate category from all other sinners. How are h's different from people who have extra-marital relations?

And, if there is no difference, than all those who try to justify their extra-marital relations are not Christians either.

And any h's who are convicted but pretend otherwise because the lifestyle is too hard for them to give up. ARE Christians.

Is that any clearer?

This would be an easier discussion to have face to face.

Peace,

F

I get what your saying......................good question! I know some people that have been married 5 or 6 times and divorced the last one, because they were having an affair with the next one. Yet they still attend church and call themselves Christians and the church seems to accept them..............I know we can't know another persons heart but???? I still have to wonder.

You cannot know their heart, but you can see their fruit.

I.............I don't know for sure.............thats a good point. Two of them I know very well, as a matter of fact one, well, he's my Uncle, and no, I must admit I don't see fruit. the other..............well she divorced and remarried, and I think while the Holy Spirit was working on her to teach her to change her life and re-new her walk...........well somehow she let the devil get in and convince her that she's in a lose/lose situation. She either has to divorce her husband, or live in sin. Thats how she sees in any way. And she grieves about it, so I know the Holy Spirit is still there, but I don't know what to do to help her????? Others I was thinking about, I don't know enough about their life outside of church to make a good call.

[Guest shiloh357]

Actually Fiosh, your example above ommitted those who justify such things on the grounds that the Bible's definition of sin is outmoded, is probably a mistranslation, only the product of men and thefore is non authoritative. Your model omits those who I mentioned earlier who reject the Bible's authority to dictate morality.

Those who either kowingly live in open rebellion or who refuse to accept the Bible's definition of sin cannot, from a biblical standard, be accepted as true, New Testament Christians.

What needs to happen is that they need to repent and allow the Holy Spirit to go to work in their lives.

There a lot of people who may belong to the "Christian religion," but are not true New Testament believers because they have not accepted Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior. They belong to a church and may participate in church activities, but they have not fully surrendered to Christ.

The church is full of "weekend warriors" who come to be absolved only to right back out in the world and live in sin. They need reexamine whether or not they are truly in Christ.

[eric]

Well it seems what it all boils down to, is>> If a person is living an immoral sex life, married, and committing unashamed adultery and is scriptually aware of the consequences, can no more call him/herself a christian in the NT definition of such and is as bad as anyone having m/f relations with those of the same sex. I think Shiloh covered all bases regarding deliberate and willful sin.

IF one does not repent, of what they know from reading their bibles, is living immoral lives, they are living according to the flesh. There is no middle ground from the way I read scripture. As Jesus Himself said, 'repent or perish' and that's good enough for me.

BTW, thank you for the birthday wishes from you guys.

[Fiosh]

Actually Fiosh, your example above ommitted those who justify such things on the grounds that the Bible's definition of sin is outmoded, is probably a mistranslation, only the product of men and thefore is non authoritative. Your model omits those who I mentioned earlier who reject the Bible's authority to dictate morality.

Those who either kowingly live in open rebellion or who refuse to accept the Bible's definition of sin cannot, from a biblical standard, be accepted as true, New Testament Christians.

What needs to happen is that they need to repent and allow the Holy Spirit to go to work in their lives.

There a lot of people who may belong to the "Christian religion," but are not true New Testament believers because they have not accepted Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior. They belong to a church and may participate in church activities, but they have not fully surrendered to Christ.

The church is full of "weekend warriors" who come to be absolved only to right back out in the world and live in sin. They need reexamine whether or not they are truly in Christ.

I agree with alot of what you've said here, Shiloh.

There are also plenty of church leaders who condone sin, and deny the Scripture teachings, who cannot call themselves Christian.

Can you address my other question?

Can you condone the homosexual lifestyle (even you yourself do not practice it) and still be a Christian. In other words, can you deny that the Bible teaches that the homosexual lifestyle is sinful, and still be a Christian?

I'm not trying to be argumentative. This is a very perplexing topic for me b/c I know people who are practicing h's yet show the "fruits" of the Spirit in their lives.

Peace,

Fiosh