Saved by faith

[justjake]

Hi, Jake! Welcome to the Boards!

I love your avatar - too cool lookin'!

You should say wecome BACK to the boards.

I am endure4salvation Jake. The avatar is from Sagz4Christ, my great and personal friend.

I have been having sooooooooo many problems logging in that I decided to start a new user ID.

I think these are great answers! Keep them coming!

I also think that this would be a great way to start fresh here at my favorite forum--worthy boards. I have been abrasive and dogmatic in many areas where it is uncalled for.

I do apologize to all for that and seek forgivness.

[Hvnly1Rose]

I do apologize to all for that and seek forgivness.

FORGIVEN

[IslandRose]

I heard a great definition of faith a while back...

Faith is Obedience to God without a precedent.

Think about it. Abraham believed God...... Abraham was from a completely pagan background yet he believed and obeyed.

Each of the examples given in Hebrews 11 were people who simply trusted God to do as he promised and stepped out in "faith". Often without having ever seen the works of God first hand. Rahab had only heard the stories of what the Hebrew children's God had done. And She trusted him to save herself and her family.

In our lives, it is shown when we trust even through storms that we have never had to deal with before. In "faith" we trust Him to keep his promises.

And each time we exercise our faith, it becomes stronger for the next storm.

[tsth]

I can say from my own experience, faith was this:

I used to say I believed, I used to say that I was a Christian.

I now know that this faith that I used to speak of became real, when I REALLY believed The Word, to the point of obeying, because I knew that it was Truth, so I began acting on it. When I began to obey, that is when I truly had faith, because even though I did/do not know the outcome of my obedience, right now, I DO KNOW that God is True, that Jesus is Just, and that His Word can be tested, no matter what. I believe what He says about His Word. I believe what He tells me to do, and I do it.

Used to, I only believed, "or said I did"?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings All,

I see some misconceptions regarding faith that has cropped up. But I agree with the Bible definition of faith which cannot be repeated enough:

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

So if you consider this definition carefully, then you know that "faith" can be applied to a lot of things "other" than God. We set the alarm at night, having faith that the alarm will wake us on time. We start the car in the morning trusting (having faith) in the car that it will start and get us to work. We have faith in our neighbor, believing that within certain perameters, he will behave himself "neighborly".

In the Complete Jewish Bible, all references to the word "faith" have been translated "trust", which is of course, a better translation. Here are the definitions of faith:

In Hebrew:

0529 'emuwn {ay-moon'}

from 0539; TWOT - 116d; n m

AV - faithful 3, truth 1, faith 1; 5

1) faithfulness, trusting

1a) faithful, trusty (as adj.)

In Greek:

4102 pistis {pis'-tis}

from 3982; TDNT - 6:174,849; n f

AV - faith 239, assurance 1, believe + 1537 1, belief 1, them that believe 1, fidelity 1; 244

1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a

conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and

divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and

holy fervour born of faith and joined with it

1a) relating to God

1a1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and

ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal

salvation through Christ

1b) relating to Christ

1b1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is

the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in

the kingdom of God

1c) the religious beliefs of Christians

1d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence)

whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same

2) fidelity, faithfulness

2a) the character of one who can be relied on

In the NT, as you can see, the word "faith" is considered in much broader depth. Yet basically at it's core, it remains the same as the OT word "faith".

Now consider this verse:

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Generally speaking "faith" or "trust" is a reliance upon something or someone of what or whom we have no control over the outcome of its performance. The "reliability" of a clock, say an electric clock, is only as good as the local power situation. If there is a blackout in the middle of the night, you may not get to work on time. You can put oil and gas in a car and whatever else you believe it might need, but sometimes, you go to start it up and whammo, NOTHING. Could it be the battery, the starter or any number of things, even loose wiring? So we limit our faith in THINGS, and we even "limit" our faith in our friends and family. The greater their reliability has been in the past, the more we trust them.

TRUE "great faith" is placed in God. For He will and MUST always keep His Word. You may wake up each morning and go to sleep each night trusting Him for the welfare of your soul, even for your "body" knowing that whatever travails it encounters, it is there for a purpose, even as Paul's "thorn" was.

So even Adam had a "measure of faith", but when he was tempted, that "faith" (trust in God's commandment) faultered. When Peter went for a walk on the raging sea, we see that momentarily he had very "great faith", but very quickly lost it when the terrors of the world caught his eye. Instead of keeping his eyes on Christ, he took heed of the world around him. He put more trust (faith) in the terrible waves and darkness and lightening than he did in Jesus.

Today, we find ourselves surrounded by things that shake our faith. Some have fallen from THE faith, because of this world. It will only get worse in this world, but we are to take heed to Jesus words:

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

So as the day draws darker and the storms get heavier:

Luke 18:8 .... Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Just one more thing:

It is GRACE that saves, and NOT "faith". Faith is only the vehicle by which we obtain GRACE.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Catsmeow]

In simplest terms -

There's a difference between mere intellectual assent and genuine faith.

*(Jesus said) Blessed is he who believes yet has not seen...

We do not see (with the optic nerve) yet are able to perceive what is Spirit because ...it is spiritually appraised.

One who is spiritually dead would be unable to perceive what is spirit.

Consider this verse:

1 Corinthians 2:14

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

[tsth]

1 Thess. 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Is this not faith? To believe the Word of God to the point of letting it effectually work in us, by obeying it, because we know It/He is Truth. Thereby, we grow in faith, and it is added unto us even more, as we practice in the trust of God's Word.

Titus 1:6 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

1 Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Hebrews 11:31 By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given friendly welcome to the spies.

Hebrews 4:11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, that no one fall by the same sort of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And before him no creature is hidden, but all are open and laid bare to the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Romans 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

Romans 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

Romans 1:5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name,

In His Love,

Suzanne

Edited February 15, 2004 by tsth

[justjake]

Great posts!

So let me ask a question.

Is there anybody here who would say that one can have a true, solid, Biblically defined saving faith and live a life that is unworthy of the Gospel?

[eric]

Quote.

DadErnie Feb 14 2004.

It is GRACE that saves, and NOT "faith". Faith is only the vehicle by which we obtain GRACE.

I would have thought it would be the other way around DE and I'll try and explain my thoughts if I may.

without typing the whole verse, Paul said in Rom.12:3 that all are given a measure of grace. However all do not have faith. So it would seem, to me at any rate, that it is possible to have grace without faith, but not possible to have faith without grace. So because we all have grace, as Paul taught, it is not necessary for all to be saved, unless you have faith. Grace on it's own cant save you, but faith does, because we all have grace anyway.

Whew , does that make sense to you. because it kinda does to me.

I am not trying to argumentative here, just seeking the truth as always.

In Christ.

eric

[CaliGuy4Christ]

Great posts!

So let me ask a question.

Is there anybody here who would say that one can have a true, solid, Biblically defined saving faith and live a life that is unworthy of the Gospel?

What's your opinion?