Confusion

[Butterfly02]

Hi All,

I have some things I have been wrestling with and would like to know if anybody might have a perspective. First, here's a summary of my background: I have been walking with the Lord for about 2 1/2 years now. It all happened quite suddenly. I had a series of recurring dreams that always depicted me inside a school, carrying a heavy load of books, and feeling hopelessly lost when trying to find my classroom. The dreams always ended the same, I would become frustrated and walk out of the school without ever finding my class. I always awakened with such a despairing feeling, and it usually hung with me most of the day, but I always chalked it up to just being a dream. After a couple of months I finally asked the Lord if He was trying to tell me something. Not long after, I had a final dream that started the same but ended quite different with a more positive outcome.

Anyway, after the final dream, within a few months I was craving church in a major way. I started trying out different churches in my area, but I wasn't satisfied with them for one reason or another. I wanted a church that taught the whole truth. I remembered a pastor at one of the churches my family attended. I always enjoyed his sermons when I attended this church with my family. I was told he left the church due to conflicting personal beliefs and that he decided to start a church out of his home. I immediately decided I would begin attending his home church as I knew his preaching style and knew he didn't water down the word.

This pastor's church proved to be a blessing to me. Not long after I began attending, I entered the darkest period my life has ever seen. The Lord revealed to me that I was going through a period of trial. This lasted for a little over two years. In fact, only recently has it finally come to an end (praise the Lord for seeing me through that!). This church helped me to cope with all the attacks I suffered and I also learned alot about the word. The church was different in a few regards though. For one, I was the only memeber aside from the pastor and his wife. Also, we worshipped on Saturdays. Though we weren't Adventists, we followed the 7th day Sabbath observance (according to the laws outlined in the O.T.).

I struggled mentally and emotionally over the Sabbath keeping. I didn't have a problem giving a day to God, but the thing that tore at my mind was the understanding that all Sunday worshippers were not keeping the right day. I was told that believers keeping Saturday were those that truly desired to obey God; those that didn't keep Saturday were simply refusing to yield to God's truth and expectations. Over and over I would struggle in my mind. I kept asking myself how so many people could not be convicted of this; especially those that truly love the Lord. I would jump online and Google everything I could find that supported the Saturday Sabbath. I always found something to convince myself I was doing the right thing. But every few months or so, the problem would arise again, and again I would repeat the whole miserable cycle. As time wore on, my relationships with other believers were deteriorating terribly fast. It became so difficult for me to fellowship with people that did not keep a Saturday Sabbath. It wasn't that I looked down on them; I was just afraid that I would be pulled in the wrong direction if I got too involved; thus making God terribly upset with me.

In addition to the Sabbath, I needed to be baptized. When I first joined the church, the pastor would always question me about getting baptized. I was not ready the first few months because I was still trying to understand alot of things. After a period of six months, I decided I was ready. The pastor was pleased and tried to make arrangements a couple of times, but circumstances always prevented it. He told me he wasn't as concerned about the baptism since I had already made the choice in my heart, it would just be a matter of time to have it completed. Well, after two years, I was extremely antsy to be baptized. I mentioned it periodically, but all to no avail. Then out of the blue, last month, the pastor announced he would baptize me in his back yard. He planned to purchase a kiddie pool for the occasion. I was quite excited as I had been waiting for this occasion for quite some time. Then, the most strangest thing occurred. The week I was to baptized, I had a the strongest gut feeling inside. I understood it was in regards to the baptism, because the closer the day came, the more heavy the burden in my stomach became. I can only say I have never had such a strong gut feeling in my entire life. I finally decided to cancel the baptism the day before and take time to find out what the Lord was trying to tell me.

Basically, what happened was that I spent that Saturday doing alot of research on the Sabbath and seeking the direction the Lord wanted me to take. I believe He revealed to me that He is our Sabbath rest and also that He wanted me to seek a new church. I attended my former church for the last time a few weeks ago. I was honest about the discomfort with the baptism and my new found understanding of the Sabbath. My pastor of course was not pleased. He immediately started taking me to various scriptures to point out that I was incorrect in my understanding. At first, I was so strong in what I believed the Lord revealed, but as time wore on, I felt myself weakening and questioning if I could be way off. I kept trying to explain myself, but every time I did, my words were twisted around and the pastor was trying to convince me that I was putting my desires ahead of God (which was not the case at all). I remember at one point as the pastor kept pointing out scripture, I thought to the Lord in my mind, "if you are leading me, please give me a sign so I know I am going the right way". A few minutes later, the pastor noticed a spider on the floor. He rose up to kill it. Just as he was getting ready to put an end to it, his dog jumped to its feet, let out such a yelp and almost bit him. I couldn't believe it. All that time I had been going there, not once had I ever seen the dog act like that. It was always well behaved and gentle. After that happened, the pastor stopped trying to persuade me in my thinking. It wasn't until after I left that I realized that this happened after I asked the Lord for a sign. Perhaps that was His sign to me.

I've really rambled on and I apologize. I am trying to sort through this and need some assistance. I don't understand why I suddenly had such a strong feeling about not being baptized. I guess I assume that the Lord would always want a person to be willing to take that step; right? But is there ever an occasion that perhaps the person performing it may not be the right one to do it? I'm still struggling to understand the Sabbath. I have a real peace about my decisions, but I still struggle with reconciling law and grace. Can anyone help me to reconcile some of this? Has anyone else out there had a similar experience?

Your time and attention are greatly, greatly appreciated. God Bless you and I hope to hear from you

[Redefine_Me]

Did I understand correctly that the church was just the pastor, his wife and you?

[Butterfly02]

Yes, that's correct. I got alot of slack from people about that, but because I believed I was where the Lord wanted me, I kept going. Every now and then, someone else would pop in, but usually, it was three of us.

[OopsMartin]

Yes, that's correct. I got alot of slack from people about that, but because I believed I was where the Lord wanted me, I kept going. Every now and then, someone else would pop in, but usually, it was three of us.

Ask the Lord to direct you to a bigger church where there would be a nice mixture of people, where there is a good foundational Bible Study going on, where you can make friends and have fellowship, where you can have a group of Christians to pray with. Once that is done, then get baptized making sure you are not getting baptized into a church but into Christ.

many blessings to you......

Martin

[Redefine_Me]

Yes, that's correct. I got alot of slack from people about that, but because I believed I was where the Lord wanted me, I kept going. Every now and then, someone else would pop in, but usually, it was three of us.

Thanks, and I didn't mean to come off "short" like I was giving you slack - but it does have bearing on the overall situation. I think OopsMartin's advice is excellent!

I'll pray for the Lord's guidance for you.

[Massorite]

Hi All,

I have some things I have been wrestling with and would like to know if anybody might have a perspective. First, here's a summary of my background: I have been walking with the Lord for about 2 1/2 years now. It all happened quite suddenly. I had a series of recurring dreams that always depicted me inside a school, carrying a heavy load of books, and feeling hopelessly lost when trying to find my classroom. The dreams always ended the same, I would become frustrated and walk out of the school without ever finding my class. I always awakened with such a despairing feeling, and it usually hung with me most of the day, but I always chalked it up to just being a dream. After a couple of months I finally asked the Lord if He was trying to tell me something. Not long after, I had a final dream that started the same but ended quite different with a more positive outcome.

Anyway, after the final dream, within a few months I was craving church in a major way. I started trying out different churches in my area, but I wasn't satisfied with them for one reason or another. I wanted a church that taught the whole truth. I remembered a pastor at one of the churches my family attended. I always enjoyed his sermons when I attended this church with my family. I was told he left the church due to conflicting personal beliefs and that he decided to start a church out of his home. I immediately decided I would begin attending his home church as I knew his preaching style and knew he didn't water down the word.

This pastor's church proved to be a blessing to me. Not long after I began attending, I entered the darkest period my life has ever seen. The Lord revealed to me that I was going through a period of trial. This lasted for a little over two years. In fact, only recently has it finally come to an end (praise the Lord for seeing me through that!). This church helped me to cope with all the attacks I suffered and I also learned alot about the word. The church was different in a few regards though. For one, I was the only memeber aside from the pastor and his wife. Also, we worshipped on Saturdays. Though we weren't Adventists, we followed the 7th day Sabbath observance (according to the laws outlined in the O.T.).

I struggled mentally and emotionally over the Sabbath keeping. I didn't have a problem giving a day to God, but the thing that tore at my mind was the understanding that all Sunday worshippers were not keeping the right day. I was told that believers keeping Saturday were those that truly desired to obey God; those that didn't keep Saturday were simply refusing to yield to God's truth and expectations. Over and over I would struggle in my mind. I kept asking myself how so many people could not be convicted of this; especially those that truly love the Lord. I would jump online and Google everything I could find that supported the Saturday Sabbath. I always found something to convince myself I was doing the right thing. But every few months or so, the problem would arise again, and again I would repeat the whole miserable cycle. As time wore on, my relationships with other believers were deteriorating terribly fast. It became so difficult for me to fellowship with people that did not keep a Saturday Sabbath. It wasn't that I looked down on them; I was just afraid that I would be pulled in the wrong direction if I got too involved; thus making God terribly upset with me.

In addition to the Sabbath, I needed to be baptized. When I first joined the church, the pastor would always question me about getting baptized. I was not ready the first few months because I was still trying to understand alot of things. After a period of six months, I decided I was ready. The pastor was pleased and tried to make arrangements a couple of times, but circumstances always prevented it. He told me he wasn't as concerned about the baptism since I had already made the choice in my heart, it would just be a matter of time to have it completed. Well, after two years, I was extremely antsy to be baptized. I mentioned it periodically, but all to no avail. Then out of the blue, last month, the pastor announced he would baptize me in his back yard. He planned to purchase a kiddie pool for the occasion. I was quite excited as I had been waiting for this occasion for quite some time. Then, the most strangest thing occurred. The week I was to baptized, I had a the strongest gut feeling inside. I understood it was in regards to the baptism, because the closer the day came, the more heavy the burden in my stomach became. I can only say I have never had such a strong gut feeling in my entire life. I finally decided to cancel the baptism the day before and take time to find out what the Lord was trying to tell me.

Basically, what happened was that I spent that Saturday doing alot of research on the Sabbath and seeking the direction the Lord wanted me to take. I believe He revealed to me that He is our Sabbath rest and also that He wanted me to seek a new church. I attended my former church for the last time a few weeks ago. I was honest about the discomfort with the baptism and my new found understanding of the Sabbath. My pastor of course was not pleased. He immediately started taking me to various scriptures to point out that I was incorrect in my understanding. At first, I was so strong in what I believed the Lord revealed, but as time wore on, I felt myself weakening and questioning if I could be way off. I kept trying to explain myself, but every time I did, my words were twisted around and the pastor was trying to convince me that I was putting my desires ahead of God (which was not the case at all). I remember at one point as the pastor kept pointing out scripture, I thought to the Lord in my mind, "if you are leading me, please give me a sign so I know I am going the right way". A few minutes later, the pastor noticed a spider on the floor. He rose up to kill it. Just as he was getting ready to put an end to it, his dog jumped to its feet, let out such a yelp and almost bit him. I couldn't believe it. All that time I had been going there, not once had I ever seen the dog act like that. It was always well behaved and gentle. After that happened, the pastor stopped trying to persuade me in my thinking. It wasn't until after I left that I realized that this happened after I asked the Lord for a sign. Perhaps that was His sign to me.

I've really rambled on and I apologize. I am trying to sort through this and need some assistance. I don't understand why I suddenly had such a strong feeling about not being baptized. I guess I assume that the Lord would always want a person to be willing to take that step; right? But is there ever an occasion that perhaps the person performing it may not be the right one to do it? I'm still struggling to understand the Sabbath. I have a real peace about my decisions, but I still struggle with reconciling law and grace. Can anyone help me to reconcile some of this? Has anyone else out there had a similar experience?

Your time and attention are greatly, greatly appreciated. God Bless you and I hope to hear from you

I believe you heard from God correctly in that you should find a different church. A church with only you, your pastor and his wife is a dangerous church with no one to answer to and I have seen or heard of many such churches go way out in left field. There is no scripture that says that the only person who can baptize has to be an ordained Minister of the Lord. But I do believe it is possible that a person with the wrong heart could be the wrong person to baptize anybody much less you.

Being basically new in the Lord tells me that you need to find a church where you can get plugged into one of the churches ministries and you must realize that you will never find a church that fits you perfectly.

The first thing that Jesus tells us to do after we have excepted Him as Lord and Saviour is to be baptized and since you have already committed to Christ you need to get baptized even if you go to a church just to be baptize. Baptism has everything to do with you, your soul, and God, and nothing to do with the church you go to. As long as you are doing it for the right reasons, you will be blessed by it. BE obedient and get your soul washed with Water.

Remember this! All confusion comes from your enemy who is satan. God brings order. satan brings doubt.

[Iryssa]

Hi All,

I have some things I have been wrestling with and would like to know if anybody might have a perspective. First, here's a summary of my background: I have been walking with the Lord for about 2 1/2 years now. It all happened quite suddenly. I had a series of recurring dreams that always depicted me inside a school, carrying a heavy load of books, and feeling hopelessly lost when trying to find my classroom. The dreams always ended the same, I would become frustrated and walk out of the school without ever finding my class. I always awakened with such a despairing feeling, and it usually hung with me most of the day, but I always chalked it up to just being a dream. After a couple of months I finally asked the Lord if He was trying to tell me something. Not long after, I had a final dream that started the same but ended quite different with a more positive outcome.

Anyway, after the final dream, within a few months I was craving church in a major way. I started trying out different churches in my area, but I wasn't satisfied with them for one reason or another. I wanted a church that taught the whole truth. I remembered a pastor at one of the churches my family attended. I always enjoyed his sermons when I attended this church with my family. I was told he left the church due to conflicting personal beliefs and that he decided to start a church out of his home. I immediately decided I would begin attending his home church as I knew his preaching style and knew he didn't water down the word.

This pastor's church proved to be a blessing to me. Not long after I began attending, I entered the darkest period my life has ever seen. The Lord revealed to me that I was going through a period of trial. This lasted for a little over two years. In fact, only recently has it finally come to an end (praise the Lord for seeing me through that!). This church helped me to cope with all the attacks I suffered and I also learned alot about the word. The church was different in a few regards though. For one, I was the only memeber aside from the pastor and his wife. Also, we worshipped on Saturdays. Though we weren't Adventists, we followed the 7th day Sabbath observance (according to the laws outlined in the O.T.).

I struggled mentally and emotionally over the Sabbath keeping. I didn't have a problem giving a day to God, but the thing that tore at my mind was the understanding that all Sunday worshippers were not keeping the right day. I was told that believers keeping Saturday were those that truly desired to obey God; those that didn't keep Saturday were simply refusing to yield to God's truth and expectations. Over and over I would struggle in my mind. I kept asking myself how so many people could not be convicted of this; especially those that truly love the Lord. I would jump online and Google everything I could find that supported the Saturday Sabbath. I always found something to convince myself I was doing the right thing. But every few months or so, the problem would arise again, and again I would repeat the whole miserable cycle. As time wore on, my relationships with other believers were deteriorating terribly fast. It became so difficult for me to fellowship with people that did not keep a Saturday Sabbath. It wasn't that I looked down on them; I was just afraid that I would be pulled in the wrong direction if I got too involved; thus making God terribly upset with me.

One thing that might help you here is this: you can still keep Saturday sabbath while worshipping on Sundays. Why not, really?? I mean, you can set Saturday aside as a day for you to pray, read the scriptures, worship God in song, and do other beneficial things...then on Sunday morning, you can go to church and worship with other Believers. There's nothing in the commandment that says you can't worship on Sundays...what the commandment about the Sabbath says is:

"Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates..." Ex. 20:8-10

See, nothing in there about not being allowed to worship on Sundays.

In addition to the Sabbath, I needed to be baptized. When I first joined the church, the pastor would always question me about getting baptized. I was not ready the first few months because I was still trying to understand alot of things. After a period of six months, I decided I was ready. The pastor was pleased and tried to make arrangements a couple of times, but circumstances always prevented it. He told me he wasn't as concerned about the baptism since I had already made the choice in my heart, it would just be a matter of time to have it completed. Well, after two years, I was extremely antsy to be baptized. I mentioned it periodically, but all to no avail. Then out of the blue, last month, the pastor announced he would baptize me in his back yard. He planned to purchase a kiddie pool for the occasion. I was quite excited as I had been waiting for this occasion for quite some time. Then, the most strangest thing occurred. The week I was to baptized, I had a the strongest gut feeling inside. I understood it was in regards to the baptism, because the closer the day came, the more heavy the burden in my stomach became. I can only say I have never had such a strong gut feeling in my entire life. I finally decided to cancel the baptism the day before and take time to find out what the Lord was trying to tell me.

Basically, what happened was that I spent that Saturday doing alot of research on the Sabbath and seeking the direction the Lord wanted me to take. I believe He revealed to me that He is our Sabbath rest and also that He wanted me to seek a new church. I attended my former church for the last time a few weeks ago. I was honest about the discomfort with the baptism and my new found understanding of the Sabbath. My pastor of course was not pleased. He immediately started taking me to various scriptures to point out that I was incorrect in my understanding. At first, I was so strong in what I believed the Lord revealed, but as time wore on, I felt myself weakening and questioning if I could be way off. I kept trying to explain myself, but every time I did, my words were twisted around and the pastor was trying to convince me that I was putting my desires ahead of God (which was not the case at all). I remember at one point as the pastor kept pointing out scripture, I thought to the Lord in my mind, "if you are leading me, please give me a sign so I know I am going the right way". A few minutes later, the pastor noticed a spider on the floor. He rose up to kill it. Just as he was getting ready to put an end to it, his dog jumped to its feet, let out such a yelp and almost bit him. I couldn't believe it. All that time I had been going there, not once had I ever seen the dog act like that. It was always well behaved and gentle. After that happened, the pastor stopped trying to persuade me in my thinking. It wasn't until after I left that I realized that this happened after I asked the Lord for a sign. Perhaps that was His sign to me.

I've really rambled on and I apologize. I am trying to sort through this and need some assistance. I don't understand why I suddenly had such a strong feeling about not being baptized. I guess I assume that the Lord would always want a person to be willing to take that step; right? But is there ever an occasion that perhaps the person performing it may not be the right one to do it? I'm still struggling to understand the Sabbath. I have a real peace about my decisions, but I still struggle with reconciling law and grace. Can anyone help me to reconcile some of this? Has anyone else out there had a similar experience?

Your time and attention are greatly, greatly appreciated. God Bless you and I hope to hear from you

I don't know if I could say exactly WHY this would be so, but I do think it's possible that this was not the man God wanted to baptize you or else not the time for you to be baptized...maybe it has something to do with what's in the pastor's heart, maybe there's a better time for it coming up...I don't know...but I'd trust the leading of the Holy Spirit in this one. Of course, I could speculate on why there would be a better time coming for when you should be baptized: when I accepted Christ into my life, it was largely due to hearing the testimony of one of my guy friends on the day he was baptized. Maybe there's someone waiting to hear your testimony. Like I said, though, that's just speculation...just take God's word for it. Maybe someday He'll show you why.

As far as learning the law vs. grace thing...look at it this way:

There is no way any of us can keep every law on our own...we are saved by grace. When we are saved by grace, works follow naturally because we love God(though don't mistake this to mean that it will never take discipline for us to continue to be obedient). Works follow salvation, they do not bring it about.

To learn more about it, I really encourage you to spend some time studying the book of Romans, since much of what Paul discusses in this book is directly related to the faith vs. works question. I'll start you off with a bit from there:

21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished

[Wingwalker]

Please do not be mad at me, since the job that I have requires me to work some weekends. There are many people who have to work on Saturdays as well as Sundays. They should not be condemned for working weekends. I do set aside a day to worship and rejoice in God. I do have my day of rest. Sometimes its three days of rest.

As far as finding a "perfect church"...well they dont exist. But to find a church in which, you will grow and be spiritually fed is important. Please dont look at fautls of the congregation or the pastor. They are afterall, human, just like you. And we are all in different walks with God. Rejoice that we are not all the same as if we came from the same mold. We are all unique and special to God in our own ways. That is how God created us to be.

I understand the importance of obediance to be baptized. I dont understand whose authority it is to baptize people. At my church, sometimes the pastor does it and sometimes the pastor has another gentleman do it. We are to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but I do not know the requirements to be a baptizer. Obviously, its not to live in the desert and eat locusts with honey. Do baptisms have to be in a church building or do they have to be in a lake, river, or stream

We are called to be witnesses to Christ crucified for our sins and he rose again. We let our lives be a living testimony to this. and we let God do His work in the lives of people we witness to.

I dont know if this helps you in any way, shape or form.

[Carol R]

I think that following the Holy Spirit is the right thing to do. He will guide you wherever He wishes you to go.

I do think that you were right not to let the pastor baptise you, even though you are not quite sure why. Obedience to God is very important.

Sounds like you are doing fine to me.

It would be good for you to find a church with more people in it, so you are not so isolated, sometimes God takes you through these tomes to teach you or prepare you for something ahead.

I hope this helps you in some way.

God bless you.

Carol R

[Butterfly02]

Hello,

Just wanted to thank everyone for their advice. I have been trying out different churches for a few weeks. I think I have found one that fits well

Hope you all are having a great week. It's a picture perfect day here in Ohio...ahh, old man winter shall soon arrive though.