Can sin be rationalized away?

[nebula]

As sinners we always fall into denial about the sins we commit in thought, word and deed whether it be through the negative prohibitions or the positive requirements of the Law. We cannot even begin to identify the specific ways in which we fail to keep the Law each minute of our existance.

Errr . . . don't you think you have exaggerated that a bit too much?

Are you claiming that the Holy Spirit will not convict you of specific sin and that you can acknowledge that sin for what it is and repent of it?

Not all sins. I cannot count all of the ways I have not kept the Law today nor am I even aware of them. But as I keep repeating, if you have a Pelagian view of sin, which is extremely shallow, then you believe that you are conscious of all your specific failures to keep the Law. Have you perfectly loved God and your neighbor and exhibited that love without failure in all ways today? Are you even aware of the numerous ways you haven't? If anyone is exaggerating anything, its those who claim they are aware of and can acknowledge all of their specific sins.

sw

American Heritage Dictionary

Pe

[Guest Biblicist]

The kind of person I am addressing is a person who is apt to say, "I am a Chrsitians but I am gay and I don't care what the Bible says about homosexuality, because I don't believe a lot of what the Bible says anyway. It was just written by a bunch of men anyway and no one is certain about how much of it is true anyway."

A person who says that has much deeper problems than homosexuality, wouldn't you think?

Exactly, that is my point. It precludes someone from being a true Christian.

But there are those who rationalize sin by skewing Scripture to fit their belief and they teach that belief to others who are less well versed in Scripture.

Matthew 18:6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Are those "little ones" guilty of their sin?

[Scarletprayers]

But, I still sin everyday...........I guess I'm just not getting it, I must admit I feel pretty stupid right now. What is the difference between me knowingly sinning and a person who has not been convicted yet, that what they are doing is a sin??? Is mine not the "greater" sin, since I know it is and yet continue to do it????? Actually after that last line, I feel like I'm talking about 2 different things.............................yes, very stupid right now.

Yes, you are talking to two different things. But you are not stupid. I find you quite the opposite.

It is one thing for a Christian to sin in a sincere attempt to serve the Lord. We all have weaknesses shortcomings, failures, flaws and will continue to have them until Christ returns.

A true Christian has immediately upon being born again, a true and sincere desire to serve the Lord and with it comes a godly remorse for sin. Along with this desire to serve the Lord comes the humility to submit what God says sin is. If one truly wants to serve God then he/she want to know what His standard of righteousness is so that he/she can serve Him better. He/she may fail and slip and do stupid things in the process, but his/her heart is set on truly serving the Lord.

The kind of person I am addressing is a person who is apt to say, "I am a Chrsitians but I am gay and I don't care what the Bible says about homosexuality, because I don't believe a lot of what the Bible says anyway. It was just written by a bunch of men anyway and no one is certain about how much of it is true anyway."

Most of the people I have met who are gay but think they are Christians use a similar argument. They try to make King David and Johnathan into homosexual lovers. They believe that Jesus might have had homosexual tendencies since he was always in the company of men (and the long hair was well). They challenge the inspiration and innerrancy of the Bible and its credibility in a host of other areas as well.

Frankly, there is no room in the Kingdom for those who want to come to God on their own terms. Sin is what God defines it as, and those who think that it can be seen otherwise are simply deluding themselves.

Well I absolutely agree that some people want God on their terms, not His, I think its one of the main reasons why people try to deny the infallibility of the Bible. Doubt the source, no conviction. We are going to have, in a few years, a whole new "brand" of Christians they've that be brought up in a churches that preach/teach that homosexuals are saved, you can live together and its fine and myriad other beliefs that will lead who knows how many straight to hell.

[st. Worm]

As sinners we always fall into denial about the sins we commit in thought, word and deed whether it be through the negative prohibitions or the positive requirements of the Law. We cannot even begin to identify the specific ways in which we fail to keep the Law each minute of our existance.

Errr . . . don't you think you have exaggerated that a bit too much?

Are you claiming that the Holy Spirit will not convict you of specific sin and that you can acknowledge that sin for what it is and repent of it?

Not all sins. I cannot count all of the ways I have not kept the Law today nor am I even aware of them. But as I keep repeating, if you have a Pelagian view of sin, which is extremely shallow, then you believe that you are conscious of all your specific failures to keep the Law. Have you perfectly loved God and your neighbor and exhibited that love without failure in all ways today? Are you even aware of the numerous ways you haven't? If anyone is exaggerating anything, its those who claim they are aware of and can acknowledge all of their specific sins.

sw

American Heritage Dictionary

Pe

[Guest shiloh357]

The kind of person I am addressing is a person who is apt to say, "I am a Chrsitians but I am gay and I don't care what the Bible says about homosexuality, because I don't believe a lot of what the Bible says anyway. It was just written by a bunch of men anyway and no one is certain about how much of it is true anyway."

A person who says that has much deeper problems than homosexuality, wouldn't you think?

Exactly, that is my point. It precludes someone from being a true Christian.

But there are those who rationalize sin by skewing Scripture to fit their belief and they teach that belief to others who are less well versed in Scripture.

Matthew 18:6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Are those "little ones" guilty of their sin?

Yes, all of us are guilty whether or not we are taught wrong or not. We are each born into sin and stand guilty before God no matter what.

James teaches in in his epistle that those who teach receive the greater condemnation, and Jesus taught that those who teach others to transgress and disregard God's law, will be considered the least in the Kingdom of God.

Generally speaking, we all have equal access to God. Those who do not know about God or have never heard of Him are in God's hands, and whatever He does with them will be fair, just and proper. However, those of us who have the Bible who have access to good Christian teachers and preachers are without excuse where false doctrine is concerned.

Generally speaking, we have the Holy Spirit as our guide, and many fine anointed preachers and teachers, Bibles in every community, and other resources and there is no excuse particularly here in the US or the western world for blatant ignorance of the truth.

[patricia1]

I brought this idea over from another thread titled, 'Naming the Name of Christ, And Wickedness'

Can sin be rationalized away without opposition to logic therefore in the absolute sense? In short, can sin be rationalized away? Can the breaking of God's Law be rationalized away by a christian at some point in their sanctification process?

Here's a basic example of what I mean. God writes a letter to me. I read it and in it I read that He said to me 'Do not lie to your Mom about taking out the trash.' This is a command He gave to me. Can I turn around and lie to my Mom by rationalizing away what God told me or that is, if I were to do such a thing, lie, would I be thinking irrationaly?

Hi firehill,

Can a Christian try to rationalize sin away by thinking irrationaly,yes. But can a Christian actually rationalize away their sin i would say no, not without consequences. God sees this sin in our lives clearly and will in some way seek to correct our irrational thinking in order to bring us back into fellowship with him because He loves us. But it is also possible to willfuly ignor Gods heeding and defile our conscience and then if we continue in sin to sear our conscience with serious consequences.

hello vickilyn.. I belive that Gods perfect will was to go to egyptsending Moses, he allowed aaron whih was permissive. Paul and peter were to travel frequently but due to personality clashes did not, Peter was prevented from going. Was Gods intention for Moses to smote the rock a second time/ no. So I consider permissive will occurred as opposed to perfect will. You see Perfect will is God s will. Permissive will is what may happen when men get a hold of it.... But then I could always change my mine...we learn things every day. either or God is in control of all destiny He has called to be in spite of us.

[Vickilynn]

hello vickilyn.. I belive that Gods perfect will was to go to egyptsending Moses, he allowed aaron whih was permissive. Paul and peter were to travel frequently but due to personality clashes did not, Peter was prevented from going. Was Gods intention for Moses to smote the rock a second time/ no. So I consider permissive will occurred as opposed to perfect will. You see Perfect will is God s will. Permissive will is what may happen when men get a hold of it.... But then I could always change my mine...we learn things every day. either or God is in control of all destiny He has called to be in spite of us.

Shalom Patricia,

I know you believe that, but I'm pointing out that it's not a Scriptural term. G-d's will is G-d's will. There is no designation of degrees of His will. There are no labels of "Permissive" or "Perfect" will, that is man's labels, but not in the Scriptures.

Some things we hear over and over and never question, but in this case, with this terminology, we should question it.

[patricia1]

I brought this idea over from another thread titled, 'Naming the Name of Christ, And Wickedness'

Can sin be rationalized away without opposition to logic therefore in the absolute sense? In short, can sin be rationalized away? Can the breaking of God's Law be rationalized away by a christian at some point in their sanctification process?

Here's a basic example of what I mean. God writes a letter to me. I read it and in it I read that He said to me 'Do not lie to your Mom about taking out the trash.' This is a command He gave to me. Can I turn around and lie to my Mom by rationalizing away what God told me or that is, if I were to do such a thing, lie, would I be thinking irrationaly?

Hi firehill,

Can a Christian try to rationalize sin away by thinking irrationaly,yes. But can a Christian actually rationalize away their sin i would say no, not without consequences. God sees this sin in our lives clearly and will in some way seek to correct our irrational thinking in order to bring us back into fellowship with him because He loves us. But it is also possible to willfuly ignor Gods heeding and defile our conscience and then if we continue in sin to sear our conscience with serious consequences.

hello vickilyn.. I belive that Gods perfect will was to go to egyptsending Moses, he allowed aaron whih was permissive. Paul and peter were to travel frequently but due to personality clashes did not, Peter was prevented from going. Was Gods intention for Moses to smote the rock a second time/ no. So I consider permissive will occurred as opposed to perfect will. You see Perfect will is God s will. Permissive will is what may happen when men get a hold of it.... But then I could always change my mine...we learn things every day. either or God is in control of all destiny He has called to be in spite of us.

[firehill]

It feels so good to have this conversation with you, firehill, I hate being at odds with you.

Same here biblicist.

[firehill]

I brought this idea over from another thread titled, 'Naming the Name of Christ, And Wickedness'

Can sin be rationalized away without opposition to logic therefore in the absolute sense? In short, can sin be rationalized away? Can the breaking of God's Law be rationalized away by a christian at some point in their sanctification process?

Here's a basic example of what I mean. God writes a letter to me. I read it and in it I read that He said to me 'Do not lie to your Mom about taking out the trash.' This is a command He gave to me. Can I turn around and lie to my Mom by rationalizing away what God told me or that is, if I were to do such a thing, lie, would I be thinking irrationaly?

Hi firehill,

Can a Christian try to rationalize sin away by thinking irrationaly,yes. But can a Christian actually rationalize away their sin i would say no, not without consequences. God sees this sin in our lives clearly and will in some way seek to correct our irrational thinking in order to bring us back into fellowship with him because He loves us. But it is also possible to willfuly ignor Gods heeding and defile our conscience and then if we continue in sin to sear our conscience with serious consequences.

Yes!

Thank you for answering. You got what I was asking, saying.