Did Jesus pray to himself?

[givennewname]

God is Three in One. God is One and yet Three. It is not an either/or dilemma. It is something that we accept by faith. Part of accepting it by faith is accepting the fact that it is beyond our human ability to understand fully. The Son prayed to the Father. The Holy Spirit descended like dove on the Son while the Father was speaking from heaven and yet They are One.

The Trinity consists of three divine beings each with their own separate body, soul, and Spirit as over 500 Scriptures prove. To deny this and believe that God is three persons in one body is to believe the theories of men which cannot be supported Scripturally

I think The Lord Jesus is the only person in the Godhead that is fully man, there fore is the only person that has a body right??

the other two persons are spirit only!

New creature

[givennewname]

The closest example I have given to friends about the Trinity is like that of a husband and wife, God sees it as one body yet two persons. Two distinct persons, two personalities and yet one.

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh

Yet that analogy breaks down as husband and wife quarrel and divorce ect... which does not seem a good example of the of the Trinity.

There is some confusion about the Trinity here. The Trinity is not one person with three personalities. It is three person in the Godhead, yet remaining one God. The analagy of a man with Spirit, Soul and Flesh does not relflect the Trinity

in that each part is only one third of a man. The spirit does not have the attributes of the soul and vice versa. In the Trinity all three persons are complete, each lacking nothing each coequal yet in the Son submits to the authority of the Father and the Spirit is in submission to the authority of the Son. The subordination within the Trinity: Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship, and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity

The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Spirit, yet the Three person is one God.

We see The Father, The Son and the Spirit all present at Jesus's baptism at the Jordan, where the Father is pleased with the Son, the Son submits to the Baptism and the Spirit later baptises the Son.

We can see that each person at the Godhead is distinct, separate & yet one. We see the Father at the crucifixion of Jesus, The Lord talking to his Father, yet they are one.

Don't understand it, just believe it. Illustration do help us understand the concept, yet it falls in some aspect to convey the true essence of the Trinity

[givennewname]

The closest example I have given to friends about the Trinity is like that of a husband and wife, God sees it as one body yet two persons. Two distinct persons, two personalities and yet one.

Don't understand it, just believe it. Illustration do help us understand the concept, yet it falls in some aspect to convey the true essence of the Trinity

God is not like a married couple ''separate beings'',there is but 1 God and he is 1.

You dont understand it because it is false,you believe it because you are told to by the christian''religion''because it's the preferred doctrine.

Any thing that can not be supported by scripture should not be taught as truth.

No way man! I didn't come out with that doctrine! the bible did!

Look at Jesus's baptism and his crucifixion.

Jesus is the person baptised, The Father was the one who is pleased, the Spirit is the one who descended on the Son. Otherwise it is a Dr. Heckle and Mr. Hyde situation.

Mat 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

Mat 3:14 But John would have hindered him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

Mat 3:15 But Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffereth him.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus when he was baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him;

Mat 3:17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

If there is only one person in the Godhead with three roles, was Jesus talking to himself here and did Jesus in the father role turn his face away from himself as Jesus took on the sins of the world on his shoulders??

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

New creature

[Massorite]

Did Jesus pray to himself or our father? If so can you explain Matthew 6:9 --"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father

which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name."

And Mark 10:18--"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."

These two verses answer your questions. Jesus was the Son and not the Father so praying to the Father is not praying the Son and while Jesus was on the earth He was part of God but the God head was sitting in heaven on the throne.

[4Pillars]

Jesus prayed to his Almighty Father of whom no man hath seen at anytime nor knew of his name at this time. Jesus is YHWH himself, the Son of the Invisible God. The God of the Old and the New Testament is the same. His name is YHWH or Jesus.

YHWH is the only God Physically Formed for us to see and witness. In him dwelleth all the fullness of God bodily (physically). The Almighty God Father is an invisible Spirit --who never change -- the Spirit of Love . His Only Image is that of his Son -- YHWH or Jesus. If you've seen him, you've seen the Father.

God Bless

Edited December 1, 2007 by 4Pillars

[givennewname]

The closest example I have given to friends about the Trinity is like that of a husband and wife, God sees it as one body yet two persons. Two distinct persons, two personalities and yet one.

Don't understand it, just believe it. Illustration do help us understand the concept, yet it falls in some aspect to convey the true essence of the Trinity

God is not like a married couple ''separate beings'',there is but 1 God and he is 1.

You dont understand it because it is false,you believe it because you are told to by the christian''religion''because it's the preferred doctrine.

Any thing that can not be supported by scripture should not be taught as truth.

No way man! I didn't come out with that doctrine! the bible did!

Look at Jesus's baptism and his crucifixion.

Jesus is the person baptised, The Father was the one who is pleased, the Spirit is the one who descended on the Son. Otherwise it is a Dr. Heckle and Mr. Hyde situation.

Mat 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

Mat 3:14 But John would have hindered him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

Mat 3:15 But Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffereth him.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus when he was baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him;

Mat 3:17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

If there is only one person in the Godhead with three roles, was Jesus talking to himself here and did Jesus in the father role turn his face away from himself as Jesus took on the sins of the world on his shoulders??

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

New creature

#1 I realize you did not come up with it.

#2 Sorry but it is not biblical.

Sorry man, it is scriptural. It is not one God playing three roles!

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Gen 1:27 And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

See the concept of Trinity here with the verse starting with the plural us and the next verse his (singular) image. The Bible specifically teaches the concept.

H430

אלהים

'ĕlôhîym

el-o-heem'

Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

Elohim is plural. If there is only one person with three roles in the God head, the term is Eloha, from which the Muslims get Allah.

Isa 6:3 And one cried7121 unto413, (2088) another,2088 and said,559 Holy,6918 holy,6918 holy,6918 is the LORD3068 of hosts:6635 the whole3605 earth776 is full4393 of his glory.351

Isa 6:8 Also I heard8085 (853) the voice6963 of the Lord,136 saying,559 (853) Whom4310 shall I send, 7971 and who4310 will go1980 for us? Then said559 I, Here am I;2009 send7971 me

We see the verse here in Isaiah Holy, Holy Holy. One holy for each person of the Trinity

Here again in Isaiah 6:8

First the verse starts with I send Singular) ends with us (plural).

New creature

Edited December 2, 2007 by givennewname

[Massorite]

Jesus prayed to his Almighty Father of whom no man hath seen at anytime nor knew of his name at this time. Jesus is YHWH himself, the Son of the Invisible God. The God of the Old and the New Testament is the same. His name is YHWH or Jesus.

YHWH is the only God Physically Formed for us to see and witness. In him dwelleth all the fullness of God bodily (physically). The Almighty God Father is an invisible Spirit --who never change -- the Spirit of Love . His Only Image is that of his Son -- YHWH or Jesus. If you've seen him, you've seen the Father.

God Bless

[/quot]

Not so! Moses got to see the backside of God and Abraham saw Him as three men/angels.

[4Pillars]

Jesus prayed to his Almighty Father of whom no man hath seen at anytime nor knew of his name at this time. Jesus is YHWH himself, the Son of the Invisible God. The God of the Old and the New Testament is the same. His name is YHWH or Jesus.

YHWH is the only God Physically Formed for us to see and witness. In him dwelleth all the fullness of God bodily (physically). The Almighty God Father is an invisible Spirit --who never change -- the Spirit of Love . His Only Image is that of his Son -- YHWH or Jesus. If you've seen him, you've seen the Father.

God Bless

Not so! Moses got to see the backside of God and Abraham saw Him as three men/angels.

Scriptures document us that No man hath seen God at anytime. Instead, they saw YHWH/Jesus, the Son of God -- representing his Almighty God Father -- who is an invisible Spirit.

John 8

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

EXODUS 6

3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty (his invisible Father), but by my name Jehovah (YHWH) was I not known to them.

God Bless

Edited December 2, 2007 by 4Pillars

[4Pillars]

Jesus prayed to his Almighty Father of whom no man hath seen at anytime nor knew of his name at this time. Jesus is YHWH himself, the Son of the Invisible God. The God of the Old and the New Testament is the same. His name is YHWH or Jesus.

YHWH is the only God Physically Formed for us to see and witness. In him dwelleth all the fullness of God bodily (physically). The Almighty God Father is an invisible Spirit --who never change -- the Spirit of Love . His Only Image is that of his Son -- YHWH or Jesus. If you've seen him, you've seen the Father.

God Bless

Not so! Moses got to see the backside of God and Abraham saw Him as three men/angels.

Scriptures document us that No man hath seen God at anytime. Instead, they saw YHWH/Jesus, the Son of God -- representing his Almighty God Father -- who is an invisible Spirit.

John 8

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

EXODUS 6

3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty (his invisible Father), but by my name Jehovah (YHWH) was I not known to them.

God Bless

Matthew 22:41-46

41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.

43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Revelation 19

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; AND HE HAD A NAME WRITTEN, THAT NO MAN KNEW, BUT HE HIMSELF.

Ephesians 3:14-15

14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, ....

God Bless

Edited December 8, 2007 by 4Pillars

[other one]

My personal position on the question:

QUOTE

Ex 24:9-11 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

KJV

QUOTE

John 6:44-46 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

KJV

Moses and friends saw the God of Israel and were not harmed.

Jesus says that no man has seen the father except He that came from Him.

So it seems to me that the Father that Jesus speaks of, is not what that the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the old testament.

Looking further:

QUOTE

John 1:1-10 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

KJV

John 8:52-58 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

KJV

It seems to me to be saying that Jesus was what the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the old testament days. Jesus in this form was with the Father from the beginning.

It seems to me that the people of the old testament days were not aware of the Father except for what they saw through the Jesus in the form he existed in before he became flesh.

Further:

QUOTE

Phil 2:5-11Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

KJV

It appears to me that Jesus as the word was that which the Father worked through to manifest Himself to the people of the old testament times. Jesus did not regard himself to want to be the equal to the Father so He took the form of a human to further the works of the Father on earth.

Jesus was deity by being in the form of God, but it was the Father that did the work through Him when he was the Word. It appears that the only thing that has changed is Jesus is now flesh working the same way only as a man. The Father exercises His will through Jesus, now in the fleshly body.

QUOTE

John 14:10-11 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

KJV

QUOTE

John 17:20-26 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

KJV

It seems to me that Jesus just extended the conduit from Him to us for the Father to do His work through Jesus to us so we could know the Father as the Father knows us. Thus we now can do the work of the Father. I believe this is the path and workings of the Holy Spirit

QUOTE

1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

KJV

Jesus, before His ascension told the Apostles that all power and authority had been given to Him. After he has subdued everything Jesus will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him........ The Father.

I don't see the Son always being equal with the Father, either when He was the word nor in the flesh. He will also be subject to the Father after He does the job of bringing the kingdom into it's full power over all and giving it to the Father.

1 Cor 8:4-6 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

KJV

Was/is Jesus "diety" yes he was/is. Is the Father "The Diety" yes he is. Is the Holy Spirit "diety" yes he is. All three exist, but we do not have access to any of them without the work of all three. Which (to me) make up the trinity. All three are our access to them and the dimensions that they exist in...