Domestic Abuse

[firehill]

If you all don't mind i am going to say something or ask it actually I'm not sure... I have been in an abusive marriage for 10 years... In the first month after we were married he started pushing me and was extremely verbally abusive.... It would escalate, then simmer down...He never apologized and said it was my fault. We have four children under the age of 8, and it is them i am concerned about, he would never hurt them physically, but i know for a fact that words hurt , so , so much more....I temporarily separated from him last year for 8 months, and after about 4 months he wanted to be back and started to compliment me more etc... and now he is living back with us, and it is has gone downhill again, but the thing is i am not concerned for my physical safety or the children, it is the words that come out of his mouth that is hurting us.... What is the Biblical stance on divorce for verbal abuse??? Not that i can ever see myself divorcing him, for I have hope that he will change, but i just don't see if i did want a divorce that i would be biblically able to do that...

Seems to me that I remember the word translated "adultery" actually covered a wide range of domestic and sexual abuses and sinful actions, including pornography. Haven't looked it up lately. Perhaps someone else has.

Even with the Scriptures in hand, I think a Christian needs to humbly approach God with much prayer asking for God wisdom, and being absolutely certain that every other avenue had been exhausted. And I would also say, we must be certain that our spouse has actually turned their heart away from us.

Good words oops.

[OopsMartin]

from damo1

i hope i can share hear with out being attacked i understand everyone is different on this topic alone and my heart goes out to some of the women that have shared hear and i am sorry that most have had to endure some harsh things in abusive marriages and even wear harsh words have been spoken towards a partner

in the community that i live in hear in australia the goverment is starting to deal with this in a way wear men can come into a group session and talk openly with out being judged or put down this mind you is only happening with in the aborigonal communities and many are on a welfare payment and living in goverment housing commission home

i hope i do not tired on no ones toes yet as a christian and as a man once who was abusive towards my partner my life has turned around to the point wear i am able to sit in on some of these sessions alone and share to the guys that come to these groups as a christian i had to say sorry to the way the church has let them down i should not have had to say sorry yet i was asked by my pastor to represent our church and just sit in and listen and wear asked to share share which i did

most of the aborigonal men and young males all said to me wear they tried to seek help from the church they almost felt ashamed and thought that all christians would not help and only be judgmental as this is how they saw the hole body of christ

as these men and young males in married relationships are wanting change they no longer want to be violent towards there partners or towards there own children they do not even want there children seeing this to the point wear they almost bring what they see to there own relationships

mind you i sit with older aboriginal men and younger ones fathers and sons sitting together talking openly and to hear what most say it almost brakes my heart i am sitting in with proffesional goverment works and most are secular workers working with in mental health and mens counselers

a lot of issues are raised in a safe enviroment like alcohol drugs pornography and yes verbal abuse as well the course runs for 12 months to 2r's and what happens they become effective role models with in there own communitys to wear they are able to lead other young males

as in most aborigonal communities in australia the elders run these communities to wear if the police are called or department of community services they have to get permission from one of the elders

this alone is on a wider scale as only this year our goverment took over several communities in the nothern territory for 5r's as there has been no police station established with in these communities to wear women young kids who experienced this sort of abuse had no wear to turn to there wear not even goverment services set up or even a church with in these communities

how this happened is people had enough to wear they cried out for help what the goverment has done with in each community alcohol bans have been established to wear no alcohol can be bought or sold with in these communitys for 6 months and in these communitys wear there was no police station police stations are being built as the law was there own law

with in the 6 of the communitys that is under control over 200 men and boys have been bought before the courts even young boys when i say young from 11 to 18 on charges such as rape and violence

hear wear i live men and young males are able to talk as i said openly and it is running very well

yes most pastors are not experienced to deal with such things as what people have been sharing and most turn to men like my friend brent or the mike for help yet both partys have to come to the table to wear they are willing to address this

yes do all the things that have been sugested we do this hear wear we tel the mother with kids to get away and we have safe houses wear women with children can go to

when i turned to the church for help i was shown the front door yet most people in our church did not know that this was happening when i opened up and cried out for help it was to late my pastor told my x wife to leave me and for 5r's i did not have no contac i signed the divorce papers that wear sent to me in 2000 and all i could do is trust god that i wail one day get a chance to say sorry to my x wife and to my son which this did happen it happened in early 2005 and as i shared in an early post we are good friends and we are very close

my x wife told me she got christian counseling and did not turn towards a secular consoler and she was able to deal with what i had put her threw i found a good christian consoler and i had to be responsible for what i put my x wife and son threw this man did not judge me or point the finger at me he helped me deal with a lot of issues even to what i had experienced at home wear i grew up under an abusive father and i had to constantly step in and try to protect my mother from the violence the way i did we dug at the root of the problem and brent invited the holy spirit into the sessions

and as i said when i am asked to share in mens groups such as i pointed out at the start my x wife prays for me and so does my youngest boy who is only 10r's old

i am know even being asked to come back to my old church as my old pastor contacted me and asked me to forgive him mind you this was hard at first yet jesus forgave me and i had no right to be angry at my old pastor as he wants to do this openly and he said several other people in my old church also want to ask me for there forgivness i said its ok it does not need to be done openly yet this is the way my old pastor wants it done i am walking back to a church that shut the door on me and its been over 6'yrs since i have been back to my old church yet god has his hands on this i am very open and i do not beat around the bush

i dealt with the verbal abuse as weal as verbal abuse can hurt a women yet today i am a better man and all the glory goes to god for what he had done in my life

again let me say how sorry i am for what some of you women had been threw and this is from the heart as i can see how wrong it was for me to do this towards my own wife and child

i hope i have not up set no one for what i stated hear if so i ask for your forgivness yet i just needed to share what is being done hear in my commuity and other communitys in Australia

from damo1

Wonderful testimony damo. God is able.

Continue to work to become the man of God, that God would have you to be.

I'm proud to know you. It's a tough road, but walking it will reap good results for your future.

[None]

The cycle of abuse is an outburst, then a show of contrition and humiliation, then a sweet cycle with flowers and promises to never ever do it again, then the slow build up then the cycle starts over, abusers are pathological liars, even to themselves.

This may be a pattern that happens to some, but cases vary.

Some people don't believe they're even abusing because their victim is either less than human to them or "deserves it". Others are made to believe that their abuse is the correct choice of action(example: some religions teach that the man needs to spank his wife when she is bad...seriously). Some live in a country, or even a town, where abuse is common practice and everyone looks the other way.~

A phrase like "I put her in her place..." is met with a high-five in certain social groups.

But what it boils down to is, just what IS abuse? Who defines the standards these days?

Certainly, beating a spouse to a pulp would be considered going too far and in need of punishment, but what about a slap? What about verbal abuse? What about general unfair treatment of a spouse and neglect? Financial abuse? Some of these would be laughed to scorn a half a generation ago. I'm interested in what Christians consider abuse. Christians who keep in consideration the spiritual warfare we battle on a daily basis.

[Marnie]

Well, since we're living in the 21st century, and this is America and not Iran...here is a summary of current legal considerations of "spousal/domestic abuse." Whether you are a believer or not, you are a human being, and even a dog shouldn't be reated like this...

[*] Dominance

[Smalcald]

Good information Marnie.

It does come down to control. I have heard abusers who try to minimize their actions and talk about their problems with "anger" and if they can just get this under wraps everything would be okay. Indeed they do have anger issues, but that is not the root of the problem at all, they can be very sweet, very kind, and they use their anger when needed to exert control. Also threats of suicide if you leave etc, are also a sign of an abuser, once again used for control.

It is a horrible thing and I do pray for women and men who are trapped in this cycle, because it is very isolating and they often it is their fault or they feel embarrassed about having this relationship. We can pray that God help them escape and that they know people who will support and help them.

[Marnie]

It is a horrible thing and I do pray for women and men who are trapped in this cycle, because it is very isolating and they often it is their fault or they feel embarrassed about having this relationship. We can pray that God help them escape and that they know people who will support and help them.

It is a horrible thing. I sort of got drawn into this whole issue in my last church, when it was discovered the "perfect couple" in church weren't so perfect after all. She was the victim of terrible abuse at the hands of her husband, and I saw in vivid fashion what an abusive husband can do to a beautiful person. He can destroy her body and crush her spirit. Nobody, man or woman, should ever be afraid to come out and seek help. And we should be ready to offer all the support they need, without judgment and without conditions.

[Smalcald]

Yup,

One of the things that comes up is the threats and thier impact on a women's ability to leave. Many times we say, well why does she put up with that. One reason, often is she fears for the life of her children, herself, her parents or some other person she loves. We know from the papers, these are not idle threats.

[Marnie]

Yup,

One of the things that comes up is the threats and thier impact on a women's ability to leave. Many times we say, well why does she put up with that. One reason, often is she fears for the life of her children, herself, her parents or some other person she loves. We know from the papers, these are not idle threats.

You're right. And there are so many other considerations, as well. Things like having to become the sole financial supporter for the family, the stigma of a broken marriage, child care, health care, the list is endless. The Church has done a thoroughly shameful job reaching out to victims of abuse and all too often pastors are to blame. I hate to keep harping on this, but the reality is too many pastors are clueless about the issues surrounding domestic violence and abuse and the stereotypical pat answers and "we'll pray for you" responses are next to worthless. With 50% of marriages ending in divorce it behooves today's pastors to do a several things:

• learn how to counsel women in distress and learn how to listen to what she is not saying;
  
• stop marrying every couple who comes to you without several weeks of thorough premarriage counseling
  
• recognize the new reality that your church is likely made up of divorced couples, remarried couples, and couples discussing the issue at home and that the old days of rock solid marriages in the church are over, at least for now.
  

G-d gave man two institutions for among other things, the preservation of an orderly society: the Church and marriage. If either of these are broken, then society will break down. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say we are witnessing that in America today.

[Scarletprayers]

Yup,

One of the things that comes up is the threats and thier impact on a women's ability to leave. Many times we say, well why does she put up with that. One reason, often is she fears for the life of her children, herself, her parents or some other person she loves. We know from the papers, these are not idle threats.

You're right. And there are so many other considerations, as well. Things like having to become the sole financial supporter for the family, the stigma of a broken marriage, child care, health care, the list is endless. The Church has done a thoroughly shameful job reaching out to victims of abuse and all too often pastors are to blame. I hate to keep harping on this, but the reality is too many pastors are clueless about the issues surrounding domestic violence and abuse and the stereotypical pat answers and "we'll pray for you" responses are next to worthless. With 50% of marriages ending in divorce it behooves today's pastors to do a several things:

• learn how to counsel women in distress and learn how to listen to what she is not saying;
  
• stop marrying every couple who comes to you without several weeks of thorough premarriage counseling
  
• recognize the new reality that your church is likely made up of divorced couples, remarried couples, and couples discussing the issue at home and that the old days of rock solid marriages in the church are over, at least for now.
  

G-d gave man two institutions for among other things, the preservation of an orderly society: the Church and marriage. If either of these are broken, then society will break down. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say we are witnessing that in America today.

[Smalcald]

Yup,

One of the things that comes up is the threats and thier impact on a women's ability to leave. Many times we say, well why does she put up with that. One reason, often is she fears for the life of her children, herself, her parents or some other person she loves. We know from the papers, these are not idle threats.

You're right. And there are so many other considerations, as well. Things like having to become the sole financial supporter for the family, the stigma of a broken marriage, child care, health care, the list is endless. The Church has done a thoroughly shameful job reaching out to victims of abuse and all too often pastors are to blame. I hate to keep harping on this, but the reality is too many pastors are clueless about the issues surrounding domestic violence and abuse and the stereotypical pat answers and "we'll pray for you" responses are next to worthless. With 50% of marriages ending in divorce it behooves today's pastors to do a several things:

• learn how to counsel women in distress and learn how to listen to what she is not saying;
  
• stop marrying every couple who comes to you without several weeks of thorough premarriage counseling
  
• recognize the new reality that your church is likely made up of divorced couples, remarried couples, and couples discussing the issue at home and that the old days of rock solid marriages in the church are over, at least for now.
  

G-d gave man two institutions for among other things, the preservation of an orderly society: the Church and marriage. If either of these are broken, then society will break down. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say we are witnessing that in America today.

I agree we are witnessing both.

In a way though divorce is a separate topic from abuse. What I mean by that is that there are many many cases where scripturally and morally divorce should not take place but it does, and on the other hand we have these cases of abuse which are far too common, and yet are not the majority (thank God), of the reasons that Christians do not stay in a marriage. So people like me, who think that many Christians who do divorce should not, end up sounding like I am telling abused women or sometimes men to stay with an abuser, and I have no such intention.

This is why we should really talk about marriage and divorce as separate topics from abuse. In addition the majority of abuse today does not happen in marriage, it happens in co-habitation and other relationships, so abuse is not an issue that is defined by marriage alone. (It is also one of the reasons I am so against living together outside of marriage, beyond just the sin issue).