Is Salvation Predestined??

[tsth]

Dear Cats,

Here is what the Spirit brings to mind:

Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

I do not know what else to say?

Except He Loves You! :il:

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Rick]

I feel so grieved in my heart, though. I have feared I'd never have the courage to be so brave as Jesus and die on the cross. I've feared I would not have the courage to endure horrendous persecution...as some of the saints have done.

I have a hard enough time bearing the burden of daily pain and suffering from my own illness...

I use medication to ease my pain and drugs to reduce inflamation and whatever I can to soothe and bring comfort.

So, what of me? Have I been found in God's disfavor? I wrestle continuously with these issues.

Should those who suffer disease refuse medications that bring comfort or relief? Should we suffer from our affliction?

I do not know.

I wrestle with this continuously.

Cats,

I can relate to the daily pain and suffering. I experienced an injury over a year ago that has never left me a day without pain since. Even with medications I still have pain. At times it gets to be unbearable, and yet through it all, I see God's hand in it all. I have seen where He has allowed certain things to transpire in order to bring about His will. And honestly, through suffering of pain, I have learned to have a greater dependency upon Him as well. I have learned alot about myself in the process. I have seen that I can love and trust the Lord in the midst of pain and suffering, and that my relationship with Him is independent of circumstances. It is far easier to have faith and trust, when things are going well, but the testing comes when things are going really bad. In my circumstances, they are extremely bad at the moment. But in the midst of the storm, Jesus is here with me. His hand holds me, it sustains me. I can tell you this Cats, and with complete confidence say, that His Grace is sufficient! We may fall into hard and difficult times in life, but He does not leave us. We can praise Him in the midst of the storm!

Rick

[WayneB]

I feel so grieved in my heart, though. I have feared I'd never have the courage to be so brave as Jesus and die on the cross. I've feared I would not have the courage to endure horrendous persecution...as some of the saints have done.

I have a hard enough time bearing the burden of daily pain and suffering from my own illness...

I use medication to ease my pain and drugs to reduce inflamation and whatever I can to soothe and bring comfort.

So, what of me? Have I been found in God's disfavor? I wrestle continuously with these issues.

Should those who suffer disease refuse medications that bring comfort or relief? Should we suffer from our affliction?

I do not know.

I wrestle with this continuously.

John 9:1 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

3 "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. 4 As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

Bless you Cats,

Wayne

[His son]

I feel so grieved in my heart, though. I have feared I'd never have the courage to be so brave as Jesus and die on the cross. I've feared I would not have the courage to endure horrendous persecution...as some of the saints have done.

I have a hard enough time bearing the burden of daily pain and suffering from my own illness...

I use medication to ease my pain and drugs to reduce inflamation and whatever I can to soothe and bring comfort.

So, what of me? Have I been found in God's disfavor? I wrestle continuously with these issues.

Should those who suffer disease refuse medications that bring comfort or relief? Should we suffer from our affliction?

I do not know.

I wrestle with this continuously.

You have nothing to fear, God is looking into your heart, and He sees your controversy. If you will just trust Him totally to deliver you from your dependancy on the phamaceuticals, He will empower you to do it and it will be in His time. I'm going through the same thing, and it has taken a lot of years but my intake of medicines is decreasing, and I know that I will be off them all together some day. So whatever you do don't be afraid.

[Catsmeow]

His: You're reading my mind. I sure struggle with this. I feel my body getting weaker and sicker by the day; the disease my mother had has sticken me. I had hoped I would be able to teach children in school and grow in my occupation as a teacher but I've been forced to now be classified as totally disabled.

I year ago, I did aerobics. Yesterday, my husband walked while I road a motorized cart in the Sam's Club. I'm too weak to walk now.

That's how far down I've come and so quickly. It's so scarey and if I didn't have my husband, I'd be in a real jam.

He's scared because he's having double vision and they are fearful he's having mild strokes that are causing the visual disruption.

It's pretty scarey...actually.

Thank you all for caring so much...just that means a lot. Cats

[His son]

Cats

Our situations are very similar. I have emphazima from smoking and have only 1/3 of my lungs left. I too am disabled, and have to depend on my wife who is a crown jewel in Jesus' crown. I to have to use a motorized chair most of the time, and am very limited in what I can do physically. But there is one thing I know for sure, God sent His word, and healed all of our diseases, and by the stripes on Jesus' back we are healed, and so it is and that healing will be manifested in us on the day, and hour that God has set for us. like the man blind from his birth. And another thing we know for sure is that it is for our good, and the glory of God. And I can tell you also that I have been working on this long enough to know that I am no longer afraid of being able to endure to it's end, because He has told me that we can't be tempted obove what we are able to endure, but that He has made a way for us to overcome our temptation to fear, and discouragement. One of the keys I have found to getting away from that place is to start thanking, and praising Him, for every thing I am ever have been and for everything I have ever have had, or ever will have. We overcome satan by the word of our testamony, and the fact that we love not our lives even unto death. So take heart, and everything will be okay. Like the song says it is well with our souls.

[Guest shadow2b]

-I feel so grieved in my heart, though. I have feared I'd never have the courage to be so brave as Jesus and die on the cross. I've feared I would not have the courage to endure horrendous persecution...as some of the saints have done

.

-Cats my dear-friend & LILL Sister--I will try to answer your concerns one point at a time IF I may??

-Either WE can TRUST GOD'S WORD to apply to every aspect of our lives & IN every situation OR we

-throw it out the window & find something better??

-LUKE.12.vss.11-12--------

-And when they bring you unto the synagogues,and unto majistrates,and powers,take ye no

-thought how or what thing ye shall answer,or what ye shall say;For the HOLY-GHOST shall

-teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say....

-MATT.10.vss.19-20-------

-But when they deliver you up,take no thought how or what ye shall speak;for it shall

-be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.For it is not ye that speak,but the SPIRIT

-of your FATHER which speaketh in you.....

--WOWWW--hey SIS...WHAT A PROMISE from our FATHER & our REDEEMER JESUS--LOOK at these

-PROMISES--IT states that WE WILL be brought before the powers that be--the RELIGIOUS-DEAD

-spiritually--& THEY will PERSECUTE US BUT BIG-DEAL--LOOK WHO SPEAKS THRU US;OUR FATHER--&

-THE HOLY-SPIRIT--THEY will SPEAK THRU US--WOWWW--HOW OR WHY should WE FEAR ANY MAN??

-OR what"they"can or will do to us??HOW many times has GOD told HIS people to:"FEAR-NOT-BE

-STRONG--BE OF GOOD COURAGE--FEAR THOU NOT-??-IF WE are in"FEAR"of any MAN or WHAT any

-MAN can or WILL do to US or THREATEN US WITH--WE areNOT trusting in--relying on-or OBEYING

-our FATHER--our REDEEMER--our SAVIOUR-our KING-our SPOKESMAN IN our trials & tribulations....

-Which Paul stated were "LIGHT-AFFLICTIONS"---

-2nd.Cor.4.vs.17-------

-For our light affliction,which is but for a moment,worketh for us a far more exceeding and

-eternal weight of glory;......

-WOWWWWW--What PROMISES--What examples of our BRETHREN that have already experienced

-these"light afflications"HOW can WE FEAR anyone or anything they might or will put us thru??

-NO LILL SIS. WE MUST TRUST HIM---THEN HE WILL SAY"WELL DONE THOU GOOD AND

-FAITHFUL -SERVANT"

-"THOSE" are the words I MUST HEAR from MY SAVIOUR--"THOSE" are the words EVERY child of GOD

-MUST strive to hear &"THOSE" are the ONLY words I can ever HOPE to hear"FAITHFUL SERVANT"....

I have a hard enough time bearing the burden of daily pain and suffering from my own illness...

I use medication to ease my pain and drugs to reduce inflamation and whatever I can to soothe and bring comfort.

So, what of me? Have I been found in God's disfavor? I wrestle continuously with these issues.[/quote

Should those who suffer disease refuse medications that bring comfort or relief? Should we suffer from our affliction?

-CATS--MY BELOVED LILL SISTER--"WE-YOU & I"suffer with a LIGHT-AFFLICATION"which is but "for

-"a moment"according to Paul---AND "GOD'S WORD"declares;

-ROM.15.vs.4-------

-For whatsoever things were written afore time were written for our learning,that we through

-patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.....

-Ahhhhhhh--CATS BELOVED----WE HAVE HOPE & COMFORT IN THE SCRIPTURES...What more could

-we ask?? Have WE both found DIS-favor in GOD'S sight?? I personally doNOT think so...Do WE have

-HOPE??GOD'S WORD states HE wil put NO-MORE ON US THAN WE ARE ABLE TO BEAR.....

-1st.Cor.10.vs.13--------

-There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man;but GOD is faithful,who will not

-suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able;but will with the temptation also make a way

-to escape,that ye may be able to bear it.....

-CATS-MY BELOVED LILL SIS;GOD IS FAITHFUL---WE have HOPE--WE must get that HOPE in GOD'S

-WORD--the SCRIPTURES are to COMFORT & GUIDE us--the HOLY-SPIRIT is our GUIDE in the

-SCRIPTURES--to GUIDE US into ALL TRUTH....HE will COMFORT US....TRUST & OBEY--remember that

-song?? SIS WE ARE ABLE--to bear anything--TRUST & OBEY--have HOPE--HE IS FAITHFUL---

-these words must & will sustain us;--"WELL DONE THOU GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANT"-----

I do not know.

I wrestle with this continuously.

[Work in Progress]

It seemed to make sense for a length of time.  However there came a point that through many conversations with a few great Christian friends those things seemed to maybe not be as I had been previously taught in this church. 

Points of Calvinism:

Man is totally depraved after the fall of man.  Mankind has now entered a state of sin and man has lost his freewill.  Salvation is not a choice a person makes but is rather based upon God

[Adstar]

Points of Calvinism:

Man is totally depraved after the fall of man.  Mankind has now entered a state of sin and man has lost his freewill.  Salvation is not a choice a person makes but is rather based upon God

[Work in Progress]

Adstar, don't make me come down there to Australia!!! LOL!

and man has lost his freewill.

This is an inaccurate portrayal of Calvinism. So many anti-Calvanists claim that we Calvanists "don't believe in freewill" and that is a statement born of ignorance and is totally untrue. They will have everyone believe that we Calvinists believe that everyone is just robots, puppets of God, everything is fate, so why bother witnessing?

It sounded to me like this poster's friends were telling him that with their statement that "man has lost his freewill".

Nothing could be further from the truth.

My thoughts? From beginning to end, the Scripture is a beautiful picture of God's plan for His elect - those he has chosen from before time to belong to Him. Every single human is born totally, spiritually dead and unable to have communion with God - until he first "reaches" for them and offers His grace and mercy to them, through His perfect sacrifice, His son Jesus. At that point, their eyes are opened and they can not refuse the call of God. Salvation is 100% GOD and to claim that man has any part in it is, IMO, not only unBiblical, but an insult to the creator of the perfect plan. Man is fallible, God is not. His divine plan for His creation is not either.

Why did he choose only some? I don't know, He doesn't say. But we know that He did not choose every soul, because we know that people have died unsaved. To say that God offered them His divine plan, but it failed, is, again, an insult to the perfection of the Creator. Christ was not a failure on the cross, he was a Victor, amen and praise Him. To fully become aware of just what grace is in this way, is to know a gratefulness unlike any other emotion ever known. Some claim that Calvinists are "pompous and arrogant" because they know that they are "chosen". Again, nothing could be further from the truth. True humbleness and gratefulness is known when you realize that God has chosen you through absolutely nothing done on your part.

Freewill? Of course we have freewill - the Scriptures are clear. We make choices every day. We also witness to everyone we can because we have no idea who God has chosen.

And, that, my dearest brother Adstar, are my thoughts. After years of intense study, and this from someone who said she would NEVER believe in the "monster God" of "predestination".