Forgiveness

[Fraught]

It's really tough being in a relationship with someone who lies. The person with hidden agendas often leaves behind them a trail of mistrust, betrayal, suspicion, or inadequacy. When the Lord reveals the hidden agenda, we can begin to walk in the light of the truth. It is then that we make a conscious choice to forgive, because the Lord is in the situation and can do mighty things.

you have proven to be prophetic, bolts, as this 'revelation of hidden agenda' thing has been coming to pass. also your statement about a 'conscious choice to forgive' stands out to me. this becomes an issue about trusting myself or more meaningfully trusting Christ in me if i know that i have made that conscious choice.

[Fraught]

oh yea,

if a brother sins against you andasks you for forgiveness, you should forgive him..... and he comes and sins against you agian, and again, he asks forgiveness.....you should also forgive that one.....

how is it Christ put it? was it 7 times???????

or was it 7 X 70 times ??????????

as was posted above, we do not have to be doormats..... turn the other cheek, but we only have two, so we do not have to keep turning it.....

mike

LOL - i think he was implying an infinite number of times.

however, you say 'a brother sins against you and asks for forgiveness'. what about a brother who sins against you and does not ask for forgiveness and in fact, refuses to even acknowledge any wrongdoing?

[Fraught]

Fraught, sister, you have just opened a very important question from a christian perspective and one that needs a lot of study.

You can't just quote a verse or two and say there you are. You have to ask yourself eg Who is forgiving whom and what is the reason that they need forgiveness, How serious is the reason for the need of forgiveness and so on.

I, myself think a good place to start, is the place where we first read about it,in the book of Matthew at the sermon on the mount. after the beatitudes when He was teaching His disciples how to pray.6:12. forgive us our debts as we also forgive our debtors,( some m/s say tresspasses).

It seems like, to me, that you have to first ask the Father forgive us of our own transgressions, before we can ask the Father to forgive us........well we do that the moment of our repentance and acceptance of Christ as Our Saviour. So my question is, from then on who do we forgive, believers or non believers who cause us grief. Do we as christians have to forgive the perps of Genocide, like Hussain, in order to be forgiven our own sins, to receive the rewards we are promised in eternity. before salvation.

For instance to all intents and purposes,I am a blood covered, spirit filled bible believing fundamentalist, yet I am glad that saddam got his just desserts, enemy of the God of the bible and worthy of God's full wrath and punishment. So if I dont forgive saddum do I lose the forgiveness obtained at my point of salvation?

Think about it and I'll be back tomorrow some more questions about forgiveness.

thanks, eric, because i think this is vitally important to our salvation. Jesus did say that if we don't forgive, then neither will our Father forgive us. biblically i think we're okay on saddam and hitler as long as we would have preferred they repented or have a genuine regret that they became the people they did. if we really give deep thought to people like that, we will realize that something has happened that caused them to have such twisted views. it is when we look at ourselves as better than them that a problem can start. this is where the phrase 'but for the grace of God go I' begins to have meaning. i cannot honestly say what i would be like if, for example, i spent the first 10 years of my life, chained to a post in the cellar or something like that.

[Smalcald]

We must forgive and it is very very hard to truly forgive.

But that is a separate issue from behavior. Just because I have personally let go of my anger and truly forgiven you, says nothing about your true state of being before God or before man. Words are very very cheap. So forgiveness is something that we do, it does not imply any change of behavior will happen to the person we have forgiven. Thus our actions do not have to assume that the person who hurt us will stop hurting us just because we have forgiven them in our heart.

Only God can change people, however according to scripture not all people will be changed, in fact some people have hearts that are indeed hardened and will never be changed. It is not a sin to know a snake will always be a snake and simply recognize that snake for what it is and treat it in a way that we don't get bitten, even when we forgive that snake for the last bite.

[irishcowboy]

oh yea,

if a brother sins against you andasks you for forgiveness, you should forgive him..... and he comes and sins against you agian, and again, he asks forgiveness.....you should also forgive that one.....

how is it Christ put it? was it 7 times???????

or was it 7 X 70 times ??????????

as was posted above, we do not have to be doormats..... turn the other cheek, but we only have two, so we do not have to keep turning it.....

mike

LOL - i think he was implying an infinite number of times.

however, you say 'a brother sins against you and asks for forgiveness'. what about a brother who sins against you and does not ask for forgiveness and in fact, refuses to even acknowledge any wrongdoing?

I can tell you......

if a brother sins against you, and does not acknowledge it, and you do not forgive, it will become anger, and this anger will turn into bitterness towards them..... and we all know bitterness will turn into a cancer and will eat at you, and you will be thinking of ways to get even, to pay them back, revenge....

the best thing to do is to forgive them, and if they throw it back in your face, it is now on their head, not yours...... and yo uwill be able to sleep at night knowing you have nothing to worry about...

mike

[Yahweh is salvation]

You always have to forgive, but you don't have to forget.