A Difficult Question

[Catsmeow]

Matthew 7:21-29

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

I need help with understanding these verses. Here, the Lord says that people will be able to do things only someone with spiritual authority could possibly do!...such as driving out demons, performing miracles and prophesying.

How is it that they can do these things in Jesus' name and under His authority and still be regarded as outcasts?

I'm really confused about this...Does this mean that they lost their salvation?

[Hvnly1Rose]

Matthew 7:21-29

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

I need help with understanding these verses. Here, the Lord says that people will be able to do things only someone with spiritual authority could possibly do!...such as driving out demons, performing miracles and prophesying.

How is it that they can do these things in Jesus' name and under His authority and still be regarded as outcasts?

I'm really confused about this...Does this mean that they lost their salvation?

I believe that this is refering to those who claim to know the Lord but all they did was the works and did not spend time with the Lord because they didn't open their hearts and let Him in. You can do things of the Lord and not be saved. Those wolves in sheeps clothing...ya know.

Ephesians 2

8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast.

[VRSpock]

Matthew 7:21-29

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

I need help with understanding these verses. Here, the Lord says that people will be able to do things only someone with spiritual authority could possibly do!...such as driving out demons, performing miracles and prophesying.

How is it that they can do these things in Jesus' name and under His authority and still be regarded as outcasts?

I'm really confused about this...Does this mean that they lost their salvation?

Two words come to mind: Television Evangelists.

Sorry...just my opinion....hope no one's offended by that.

My view of TV Evangelists has been skewed by a late night "evangelist" called Dr. Scott that came on late nights on independent TV when I was younger. I watched it primarily for the humor value although it was educational at times. My favorite was when he stated that if you had such little faith as to send less than a $1,000 in donation then don't bother sending anything at all.

I'm sure a few TV Evangelists are truly sound Christians.

There are many examples of people who "talk the talk but don't walk the walk". I believe the verse your quoting is referring to these false prophets. People have waged war in God's name. People have condemned others in God's name. People have lined their pockets in gold in God's name. Yet, in all honesty, their personal relationship with God is seriously lacking. They use "canned prayers" with God. God is a tool for them to serve them for their own agendas.

Ever seen the movie Leap of Faith with Steve Martin? I think it's an excellent example of this. It's rated PG-13.

If you publicly accept your salvation yet your heart is still not truly right with God, are you truly saved? That is a question that can only be answered between you and God.

Just my opinion....I'm no bible scholar so use at your own risk.

[Guest LadyC]

my thoughts, for what they're worth.

Satan can immitate anything God can do. i believe there are those who will perform what the world thinks are miracles of God, while those who do them serve another master.

[eric]

Hi Cats, interesting to note that Jesus said many will come to me and say , but Jesus knew their hearts and knew they were lying. Big differenc to saying and doing something. He knows whether they did or not.

my two cents. I hope it helps.

[Adstar]

Wisdom needed. You sure are right catz maybe God will bless us with an answer?

This scripture i think is related to Matthew 7:21-29

1 Corinthians 13

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

Note how it says how all the gifts of the Holy Spirit profit a person nothing if they do not have love?

1 Corinthians 13 continues

4Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

What did Jesus say when asked what was the greatest commandment.

Matthew 22

35Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"

37Jesus said to him, ""You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like it: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Seems love is very important doesn't it?

So what

[Catsmeow]

Wow! Some great answers here...

Artsy: I think that must be "it". It's a matter of Satan imitating the miracles of Christ...

Eric and Adstar: You both make a similar point..and I can see it makes sense. People were enabled to perform miracles in the Name of Jesus but we know Judas Iscariot perished. He was called the "Son of Perdition" I believe.

Sounds like we can be following the Lord and then depart from the faith or get caught up with greed and other vices?

This sounds like salvation is not secure and that we can potentially lose our safe place ...our secure position in Him, if we're not careful.

So ...in other words...people can work miracles, drive out demons, and do healings and whether or not they are sincere, God may indeed "use" them OR

Satan may display miracles through them...but they have departed from the faith.

I sure hope I made sense.

[traveller]

Matthew 7:21-29

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' (emphasis mine)

Cats, I keep going back to the use of the word never. He said He never knew them. If they had been saved at one point, then wouldn't Jesus have known them then?

Good thread sis!

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Catsmeow,

I had a computer disk crash the other day, so I don't have my Bible handy yet, but let me answer this from my memory.

The word "Knew" is the important word here. Remember the 7 sons of Sceva in Acts? They ONLY KNEW OF Jesus, they did NOT KNOW Him. The word "know" is often used to relate to a man who "knows" a woman. It is a VERY SPECIAL, INTIMATE relationship that should only be entered in to AFTER marriage. One of the reasons thought to be the cause of a monogomous relationship is that by the sharing of such a personal relationship, one also shares of "their spirit".

This can be seen in the relationship also with our Lord. Jesus "breathed" upon all the disciples before He sent them on their missionary journey, thus giving them a "measure" of what was to come "fully" at Pentecost. We know also that there is "power given in Jesus Name". It is quite possible to "hear" of Jesus, and even "to use His Almight Name", but it is quite a different story to have an intimate and personal relationship with the Lord.

Personally, I believe that those whom Jesus told to "go away", had received the "Knowledge" of Jesus Christ, but never took the time to establish a "personal relationship".

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE 

Matthew 7:21-29

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' 

I need help with understanding these verses. Here, the Lord says that people will be able to do things only someone with spiritual authority could possibly do!...such as driving out demons, performing miracles and prophesying.

How is it that they can do these things in Jesus' name and under His authority and still be regarded as outcasts?

I'm really confused about this...Does this mean that they lost their salvation?

Cats,

For what its worth, those people were never saved to begin with. Jesus was not referring necessarily to those specific works, but rather they speak to a category of people who are doing great things for God, but are not actually believers. Inspite of the great teaching available to us today, there are still people who think they are saved because they helped big churches, or participated in a hundreds of mission trips, or because they are involved in big ministries. Jesus is not saying that genuine Christians will lose salvation. He is saying that we are going to soooo surprised when big name Christians who we thought were the epitome of true Christianity, don't make it in.