Why I am a Christian Zionist

[Guest shiloh357]

The fact remains - the Lord

[Guest shiloh357]

This is all so interesting. Scripture makes it clear that God will never rescind His promise to Israel. The Chruch has not, nor will it ever, replace Israel.

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Nathele

You are correct!! Thanks, Nathele!!

[followerofjesus]

When we die the judgement remains the same wether its tonight or tomorrow. Its always a good day to die.

[nebula]

...the pre-Tribulation rapture of the Chruch is the only logical position

Thread hi-jack

[nebula]

A man has a natural born son who rebels against him and runs away from home. The man then adopts a son.

Has the adopted son replaced the natural son in the man's heart? Does not the father long for the return of his natural son. Would not a loving father reserve an inheritance for the natural son (perhaps under conditions, but reserve none the less)?

We Gentile believers have been grafted in, yes, but I disagree that this means we have replaced the physical seed of Abraham.

The prophets and Paul are clear that the physical seed, the natural branches will return to the Lord their God. This means they will fully partake in God's covenant given to Abraham.

The Apostles never demanded the Gentile believers subject to the "law of Moses," but the writings never tell the Jews to forsake the Law, either.

And yes, this is a whole other debate from the OP, but as long as you subject the Jews to the Gentile Covenant, you will never understand God's heart for them.

of course it isn't a matter of replacement. Jesus was a Jew. also matthew, mark, luke (maybe) john, paul, timothy, james, etc. etc. etc.

how do people forget all original christians were jews? we received Jesus from them !!! in light of that, i don't understand how very much of the above makes sense.

replacement seed? No. It is clear that Jesus Christ is the Seed.

Well, I agree with you on this one!

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE(shiloh357 @ Oct 9 2007, 11:15 PM)

No, because Ezekiel 36 is not a "millennial" prophecy.

yes, it is

v. 33-38

This is what the Sovereign LORD says: On the day I cleanse you from all your sins, I will resettle your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt. The desolate land will be cultivated instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass through it. They will say, "This land that was laid waste has become like the garden of Eden; the cities that were lying in ruins, desolate and destroyed, are now fortified and inhabited." Then the nations around you that remain will know that I the LORD have rebuilt what was destroyed and have replanted what was desolate. I the LORD have spoken, and I will do it.'

"This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Once again I will yield to the plea of the house of Israel and do this for them: I will make their people as numerous as sheep, as numerous as the flocks for offerings at Jerusalem during her appointed feasts. So will the ruined cities be filled with flocks of people. Then they will know that I am the LORD."

that is the full restoration of the Land, not the temporary pseudo peace orchestrated by the antichrist, which precedes Armageddon

I am not talking about the temporary pseudo peace of the antichrist.

When I say it is not a millennial prophecy, what I mean is that while it will find it's final phase of fulfillment in the Millennium, the prophecy is being fulfilled now. A lot of people believe that God is not even going to orchestrate any return of the Jewish people at all until they get saved and we all enter the Millennium. Ezekiel 36 and 37 are the chief refutation of that. I agree that final culmination of the the realization of the restoration of Israel will not occur until lthe Millennium, but the actual process of fulfillment of this prophecy begins long before the Millennium.

QUOTE

The Jewish people will find the Messiah in the Land BEFORE the Millennium (Zechariah 12:10).

at the end of the Tribulation, when Christ returns, right before the Kingdom is established...Christ immediately sets up the Kingdom as described in Zechariah 14

Yes, I would agree.

QUOTE

The West Bank is Jewish Land TODAY.

it is, but they will not possess it again until the Kingdom

They will possess far more than that, but again, the point for the purposes of this thread and my point is that the Jewish people are not erecting "illegal settlements."

Ezekiel prophecys that God is bringing the people back to the mountains of Israel (West Bank) in the process of the restoration of Israel, and we know that this is a description of what is happening right now, because God says that He would restore to the Mountains of Israel while they are still in unbelief and that is the exact description of what is occuring today. They are on their covenant Land today which is a fulfillment of Ezekiel 36: 8-12 (which is not describing the Millenium).

then Armageddon (Ezekiel 38)

Ezekiel 38 is not Armageddon.

yzf-r1,

I have, out of politeness, answered your remarks, but I am going to remind you that as the OP, my purpose in this thread is NOT to discuss Bible prophecy with respect to the Millennium, rapture, antichrist, etc. My purpose is to discuss the truth regarding why I believe in Israel's right to the Land. We have a Bible prophecy forum for the discussion of prophecy issues relating to the rapture, antichrist, etc. If want, you may take my above response and start a new thread, and I will be happy to join you there and discuss it with you, but you are instructed to cease hijacking this thread with any further discussion of the rapture, antichrist and related topics. Any violations of this request will reported to the mods and those comments will be removed.

[GeneV]

Ok I hear what you say and I accept it as your right, I did not mean to be derogatory or criticize anything other than the need to add to "I am a Christian (fill it in) . Guess I could also explain.................

Why I am a Christian South African who believes in the inerrancy of the Bible

[Guest yod]

I'm going to have a hard laugh when nothing happens like you think it will...

....as if God fits in that nice tidy little box?

Would you PLEASE keep your culturally-western theological devices out of this discussion?

pretty please with sugar on top?

[ColleenLovesMischief]

I'm going to have a hard laugh when nothing happens like you think it will...

....as if God fits in that nice tidy little box?

Would you PLEASE keep your culturally-western theological devices out of this discussion?

pretty please with sugar on top?

Even I know God does not fit into some little box.....God does what He wills as he wills.

[nebula]

...as part of the Church, our allegiance is first and foremost to Christ and the gospel, not the Jews, whom God has hardened during the present Church Age...I don't have a problem with those who back them financially or whatever, but I believe our primary goal is to spread the gospel to those with ears to hear...sadly, that is very few Jews

Sorry, but this comes across as spiritual bigotry.

Unsaved and hardened hearts are unsaved and hardened hearts - Jew or Gentile. And Gentiles are just as guilty of being hardened to the Gospel as Jews are. I don't know about you, but I'm surrounded by a lot of hard-heartened Gentiles where I live. I don't have any reason to believe they are to be given any more favor because "the time of the Gentiles" isn't quite over yet.

More Jews are coming to faith in Messiah Yeshua in the past few decades than there have ever been since the first century. Does that not tell you something is stirring?