GUILTY

[Guest LCPGUY]

Cats said:

I'm sure Martha has done wrong. So have I. I've been fortunate not to get caught but she wasn't so fortunate.

Cats, it wasn't that she got caught. It's that she lied about it. At this point in time there's obviously no sense of right-or-wrong in her heart.

Sure, we've all sinned and broken laws here and there. But when we're caught in it, do we lie about it? I know you wouldn't. I know I wouldn't.

She is unrepentant and obviously thinks she's above everyone else. She is an unrepentant liar. Maybe "cell time" will help her to come to the truth. The truth of Christ. I pray so.

Love,

John

[Work in Progress]

Oh man, lcpguy!! I was just going to agree with your former comments too!!! LOL!

Yeah, she lied and covered it up. She probably couldn't believe that she was being charged with a 'crime' and it was easier to try to get out of it that way then to fight the silly laws that say she committed a crime.

I'm the LAST person on the planet who would say that the "well - so and so did something just as bad!" excuse is a good excuse for wrongdoing. It's not. HOWEVER, I think these 'crimes' she supposedly committed are petty cr*p (sorry, but I think it's bogus). And I agree with lcpguys original statements - the people who are calling for heavy punishment - I'd like to ask them - have they ever speeded? Have they ever written a check or used their debit card BEFORE they made a deposit to cover it? These are CRIMES. But they are PETTY. Sorry, I just can't get worked up over petty stuff that creates no victims. I think she is a scapegoat. She has a nasty personality and she was convicted on that IMO. That is wrong. She also doesn't claim Christ, so I don't hold her to a high standard.

I just choose to get 'judgemental' (if you will) over real bad stuff that is bad for the rest of society. The games of the rich and famous will never change and I couldn't care less about them.

And, besides, I'm enjoying my lovefest with River too much. :il: :il: :il:

[Guest LadyC]

I just assumed Martha got involved in selling stock illegally. I was wrong.

she did. it's called insider trading. but they dropped the charges for the insider trading and tried her for conspiracy and lying about the insider trading she did.

that was pretty merciful in and of itself, because the max sentence for the insider trading charge alone was far worse than the sentences for the lesser charges.

i don't delight in her fall. but i would not delight in her getting off the hook with no penalty either.

[Guest LCPGUY]

Oh man, lcpguy!! I was just going to agree with your former comments too!!! LOL!

Yeah, she lied and covered it up. She probably couldn't believe that she was being charged with a 'crime' and it was easier to try to get out of it that way then to fight the silly laws that say she committed a crime.

I'm the LAST person on the planet who would say that the "well - so and so did something just as bad!" excuse is a good excuse for wrongdoing. It's not. HOWEVER, I think these 'crimes' she supposedly committed are petty cr*p (sorry, but I think it's bogus). And I agree with lcpguys original statements - the people who are calling for heavy punishment - I'd like to ask them - have they ever speeded? Have they ever written a check or used their debit card BEFORE they made a deposit to cover it? These are CRIMES. But they are PETTY. Sorry, I just can't get worked up over petty stuff that creates no victims. I think she is a scapegoat. She has a nasty personality and she was convicted on that IMO. That is wrong. She also doesn't claim Christ, so I don't hold her to a high standard.

I just choose to get 'judgemental' (if you will) over real bad stuff that is bad for the rest of society. The games of the rich and famous will never change and I couldn't care less about them.

And, besides, I'm enjoying my lovefest with River too much. :il: :il: :il:

WIP,

while I somewhat agree with you, she took advantage of information that the other poor little investors didn't have. Many people lost a lot of money in this situation.

However, as I stressed, SHE LIED about it. She sees no wrong in herself. I think she views herself as one of the elect. The rich. The chosen few. One that that the law doesn't apply to. She thinks, IMHO, that she's above us other poor souls.

Even her neighbors say she IS NOT a very nice person.

She needs Jesus. She needs to experience humility in my opinion. Most of us have had to do this at one time or another. Why is (should) she be above it?

Don't get me wrong here. I don't hate her. I don't dislike her. I just think she's a poor lost soul who needs Jesus. Like many others, maybe she'll find Him in her personal cell. I hope so. She doesn't seem to be a joyous person.

"Lord, do with this situation, and Martha, according to your Holy Will."

WIP, remember, sometimes true love can be tough love!

Love yuh,

John

[Catsmeow]

Dear ICYguy: John, you're a dear friend who I respect and trust ...but I can't trust many people with my testimony; I am a chief of sinners and not worthy of God's mercy! I am without honor!

There was a time when you couldn't find a picture of me without a Bud in one hand or smoke in the other.

John, I don't even KNOW that person now...it's just a memory.

My blood relatives don't know me now. They liked me before. I was a real "life of the party"...and I enjoyed life to the fullest! The change in me now is so remarkable, no one from my past knows me.

From toddlers to adults - people know when they've done wrong. Even our pets know when they've done wrong. Their ears flatten and they slither away in a cloud of guilt when they've done wrong.

We all know when we're "bad"...

Martha is a real person, like you..like me. She got caught doing wrong.

Instead of going into a prayer closet and praying, she hired a lawyer..(what most folks would do, right?)

Why would she admit she did wrong? Just look how people treat someone who's guilty?

Whoever bothers to read this post...check this out:

Just look at how WE treat people who do wrong! Do we say "Where are your accusers? Go and sin no more."

No way! We're foaming at the mouth, waiting for the ax to fall. t's our nature, isn't it? We're act like the "National Inquirer" looking for a good story.

We're not grieving for her lost condition or yearning for her salvation. Are we?

She's a person in need of a Savior because ....she's LOST!

She's made a bad choice. Why are we quick to condemn?

Jesus didn't sentence the adulteress to a stoning. People today would probably book the "adulteress" for a spot on Jerry Springer and then made a few bucks on her pitiful condition, not minding the condition of her soul.

Jesus simply said, "Woman, go and sin no more." No guilt...just mercy.

Luke 7:41-43

41 "There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42 And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?" 43 Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have rightly judged."

[Guest LCPGUY]

Martha is a real person, like you..like me. She got caught doing wrong.

Cats, of course she is real. I never suggested otherwise. And yes, she got caught.

It's not what she did, it's all about her lying and deceit about it. I agree, she's a real person, but I don't think she thinks so. Cats, it's all about admission, about confession, about repentance.

From what I see and hear, she displays none of those traits. She still wants to appeal and fight it.

Have you ever heard her ask for forgiveness? If she did, I'd be the first to come to her side. But she doesn't, she still insists she was right. What an EGO!!!

Guess we finally found a topic we disagree on.

Love yuh,

John

[Catsmeow]

Not really. It's just a topic that's incomplete.

The point is, who ever admits to anything when they don't have the Holy Spirit to convict them?

Did you? Did I? Heck NO!

It takes the Holy Spirit to move in our hearts to change us on the inside.

What she needs is what we already have....the Holy Spirit to move her toward conviction.

It's hard enough to admit we're wrong even WITH the Holy Spirit. Pride is a problem we all suffer with.

It's ONLY because of the Holy Spirit we are enabled to humble ourselves and face our sins.

Martha needs the Holy Spirit to move her heart and help her come to repentence.

I'm sure you agree with that.

[Catsmeow]

[

[IslandRose]

Look, I am not clapping my hands over ther thought of Martha decorating her prison cell. I am saying that there are consequences for our choices.

Say there is a family where there is an alcoholic husband. When he is not drunk he is a nice guy. But when he is drunk he is a really nasty person. Say he often comes home at night drunk. He parks the car half way between the road and the drive way. Knocks over the garbage cans as he tries to park. Throws up on the side walk and maybe even passes out right there. What does his family do. They love him, they have compassion on him. The son maybe goes out and sets the garbage cans up. Maybe parks the car properly in the drive way. Hoses off the sidewalk. The wife cleans up his mess. Washes her husband and puts him to bed properly.

So hubby wakes up in the morning. Everything is fine right. No. He hasn't had to face the consequences of his actions. He hasn't had to go out and see his neighbors standing around looking at the mess he made outside, the car obviously parked by a drunk. Maybe if he woke up face down in his own vomit he would have to realize that there really was a problem. But his family has enabled him to think he is dealing with things just fine.

Do you know how many people finally come to the Lord whan they realize they have hit bottom? Many have to hit bottom before they will every look up. Do you think Chuck Colson would have become the man he is if he hadn't had to go to prison for his crimes? Sometimes the most compassionate thing you can do for a person is allow them the consequences of their actions. That is the place where the Holy Spirit can really get their attention. When they realize that nobody on earth can help them. Their lawyers can no longer get them off. Their money and power are useless. Only God can do something for them now. And it isn't necessarily getting them out of prison, but rather releasing them from the prison of Sin.

This is what I wish for Martha. Wouldn't it be wonderful, if all this brought her to the realization that no home is truly a home without Christ in the center, no matter how grand or humble.

[traveller]

Wow IR, were you my neighbor many years ago?

Exceptional post.