What day of the week should we go to church on?

[Celtic Warrior]

mistaken post. apologies

Edited November 13, 2007 by Celtic Warrior

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE(shiloh357 @ Nov 12 2007, 08:57 PM)

Seventh Day Adventist doctrine is based on the teaching of Ellen White.

Shalom Shiloh,

You are incorrect. Not all SDA's acknowledge the teachings of Ellen White, in fact, many have rejected her.

What I know of SDA's they are not a cult and are in fact, Believers in Messiah.. However, that is not the topic of this thread and should be explored elsewhere, more appropriate.

What they reject is Ellen White as the final authority on spiritual matters, particularly when they discovered she was a plagiarist. The teachins I inumerated above are still part of SDA theology, which precludes SDA from being Christian and it is not out of place at all to discuss it here, because it speaks directly to their position on the Sabbath. Because they teach a works-based salvation and that salvation was not fully paid for at Calvary, it must be earned particularly by the obserance of the Sabbath as well as the other Ten commandments.

QUOTE

God being pleased with us is not on the basis of our works.

I disagree. As i said before G-d is pleased when we surrender to Him and walk in His ways. It is a HEART thing, not a works things.

If you bother to read what I wrote, I said that God is not pleased with us on the basis of our works. I did not say God is not pleased when we obey. What I am saying is that we can never on the basis of our works, make ourselves acceptable before God. God's acceptance of us is not based upon what we do. Our works no matter how illustrious they might be, are as filthy rags. If we could please God on the basis of obedience, then Jesus' sacrifice would have been pointless. It was precisely because God's pleasure or favor can be earned by obedience to the commandments that Jesus came in the first place.

That is the problem with works-based cults like the SDA. The emphasis is not on the finished work of the cross as any ex-Adventist will tell you. It is based purely on performance, as they are taught that the atonement was not completed at the cross.

[Smalcald]

Well if they reject that Christ is God, they reject the Trinity and thus are outside the Christian faith, I did not know that was what they believed.

[LOVEFORTHELORD]

You used to hear everyday of another school or court building taking the 10 commandments off their walls, why would this upset so many Christians if these laws have been done away with like so many like to think? They are not taking down the 600 in some ordinances & laws, that were abolished, they are taking down something more important to us, they are taking down God

Edited November 13, 2007 by LOVEFORTHELORD

[Vickilynn]

Well if they reject that Christ is God, they reject the Trinity and thus are outside the Christian faith, I did not know that was what they believed.

Shalom Smalcald,

That's not.

I highly encourage you to check things out for yourself and not get your information from Shiloh alone for what he posted is misinformation.

I won't respond any more to his posts since he refuses to be gracious, but I see that you believe what he wrote without checking it out and I must post the truth, which is NOT what Shiloh posted.

First off, I am not an SDA, but Shiloh's posts are incorrect about them. Again, this thread is NOT the place to debate what SDA's are or aren't, but Shiloh has publicly posted false accusations that need to be rectified publicly.

Especially concerning the Jesus as G-d accusation and the Trinity, both they DO believe in: Please read their statement:

http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

2. Trinity:

There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.)

3. Father:

God the eternal Father is the Creator, Source, Sustainer, and Sovereign of all creation. He is just and holy, merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness. The qualities and powers exhibited in the Son and the Holy Spirit are also revelations of the Father. (Gen. 1:1; Rev. 4:11; 1 Cor. 15:28; John 3:16; 1 John 4:8; 1 Tim. 1:17; Ex. 34:6, 7; John 14:9.)

4. Son:

God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles He manifested God's power and was attested as God's promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. (John 1:1-3, 14; Col. 1:15-19; John 10:30; 14:9; Rom. 6:23; 2 Cor. 5:17-19; John 5:22; Luke 1:35; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 2:9-18; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4; Heb. 8:1, 2; John 14:1-3.)

5. Holy Spirit:

God the eternal Spirit was active with the Father and the Son in Creation, incarnation, and redemption. He inspired the writers of Scripture. He filled Christ's life with power. He draws and convicts human beings; and those who respond He renews and transforms into the image of God. Sent by the Father and the Son to be always with His children, He extends spiritual gifts to the church, empowers it to bear witness to Christ, and in harmony with the Scriptures leads it into all truth. (Gen. 1:1, 2; Luke 1:35; 4:18; Acts 10:38; 2 Peter 1:21; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:11, 12; Acts 1:8; John 14:16-18, 26; 15:26, 27; 16:7-13.)

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Y'all,

Shiloh has tried to make this thread about Seventh Day Adventists and accused someone here of being one, when Pilgrim7 states that he is not.

No one here is an SDA, so please, let us return to the topic at hand and ignore the attacks and false accusations that are seeking to derail this thread and threaten the grace that we've been discussing this issue with.

Thank you all!

[Vickilynn]

Vickilynn,

I would enjoy discussing the issue further. I don't expect us to agree on all points, but that is OK. You share from your perspective as the Lord has led you and I will do likewise, no accusations, no condemnation. I like to get the opinions of others in their search for truth.

Shalom Dennis,

I thank you for your gracious reply and I too love to discuss the Sabbath with Christians who have an open heart to hear the truth. I don't mind if we don't agree on all points! I am open to learning from you!

As for Shiloh's accusation that I am an SDA, it is not true. I have told him this many times, but he still returns to his old accusations and diatribe. It is true I do agree with many of the things that they teach, for I have found them to be both Biblically accurate as well as historically accurate. I do attend church there on Sabbaths occasionally as I would any 7th day church who teaches Jesus as Lord and Savior. I also attend some Sunday churches, for I have many friends who attend. They know that I am a Sabbath keeper, but I love them as brothers and sisters in Christ, and they do me. Yet I don't do it thinking that it has any relation to the Sabbath or that the Apostles taught it. I do it to fellowship with my friends and meet others.

I apologize on behalf of those who have wrongly accused you and not taken your word as truth. The L-rd will judge. For now, the issue is not whether someone is an SDA or not, since everyone in this thread has said that they are not, we should simply discuss the issues of Sabbath and not let others try to derail the thread into an SDA debate.

I too love my SDA brethren and have found them to be wonderful Christians. I agree with many of their teachings, but there are some that I do not agree with. And that's OK. I do know fundamentally, they are a Christian denomination (at least those SDAs who do not place their foundation on Ellen White as a prophet). That said, let us leave behind the SDA discussion and simply continue on regarding what G-d says about Sabbath, may we?

As I told him some time ago, at least the SDA's can read and understand that when God makes something holy, it is holy, then, now and forever. God has said honoring it pleases Him, so I am going to please Him for I love Him. He also said that He created it for me. I am one of the mankind that Jesus said He made it for as a blessing. If He made me a gift of the Sabbath to bless me, then I am not going to refuse that gift and the attendent blessing. God says it is sin to refuse the His gift, and what is sin is sin, then, now and forever. Even most children can understand that.

I agree.

Now back on track, I appreciate what ever wisdom you may have on the issue and will lovingly and honestly share my take on the same. Sometimes it is difficult to follow, because of the large nember of post that come in between each response.

That's OK, I'll seek out your posts!

Now as to a point that has been brought out, God's people can please him as LovefortheLord brought out. God understands our frailty and accepts our obedience whenever it is done out of Love, for as Paul says, it is not just faith, but faith that works by love.

Exactly. Did you read my responses on this issue? I believe that we are to walk in G-d's commands and the perfection is found in Yeshua. Shall I repost what I wrote in response to Shiloh or did you see them?

I believe we were talking about the Sabbath being one of "rest" and you stated it had to be one of "gathering." I would like to explore that more if you don't mind.

This is the Faith that pleases God. There is a faith that does not please God, and that is faith without the works of love. This is why it is disconcerting when people say that they need a 'New Testament' command in order to keep it. Those who love God with all they are and have, don't need to be commanded to please God, love seeks for any way to please the object of its affection. When they see that Sripture says something pleases God, which is what the Scripture is to show us, they do it with all their heart, mind, soul and strength. You see the 'New Covent' experience is not that of the School master who says you should and shouldn't do certain things or you will die, but says 'I can do all things through Jesus who loves me and dwells in me giving me his Strength, love for God, to do them'. Yet disobedience is still sin, and the wages are still death.

OK, I was with you up until the last sentence, which I have bolded:

Yet disobedience is still sin, and the wages are still death.

Can you expound on this a bit more please?

[Vickilynn]

All you have to do is look into Gods word to see how many times he commanded us to keep his commandments, to know what he wants us to do. Many of you will probably say New Testament Christians are only told to keep 2 commandments now, but this is not true, Jesus says the ten, hang on two:Meaning all TEN, he didn't say the nine hang on two.Love God with all your heart (means you

[Smalcald]

But Christ did talk specifically about how we are to live, how we are to follow His commands, I think we are hung up on this "ten" idea, when never once is that term used.

But I just can't get around Colossians on this matter. Outward observances of New Moon's and Sabbath's is directly discussed; it is lumped into all of the other outward observances such as circumcision and diet. Christ gave us standards indeed for loving Him, but they are much harder than any sort of observance, they go to our hearts and what we actually desire. Which is why looking at a women or man with lust is adultery according to Christ, obviously He is not caught up in rigid outward observance but something much more difficult. To say that one must set aside time for worship on one particular day is not a moral law, it is about religious obligation, something that Christ did not call us to fret about.

The Nation of Israel WAS commanded to observe rigid outward observance. However a Sabbath is observed when we rest in Christ and find His rest which fulfills all of the Sabbaths and New Moons and animal sacrifices and so forth which were a shadow of the real thing, Christ Himself.

[Vickilynn]

But Christ did talk specifically about how we are to live, how we are to follow His commands, I think we are hung up on this "ten" idea, when never once is that term used.

Shalom Smalcald,

There are plenty of truths that are explained in the Scriptures, but not specifically termed.

For instance the "Trinity" is nowhere in the Scriptures by term, but it is very clear by doctrine.

Yeshua used the term "commandments." He did not have to spell it out, all the people KNEW what He was talking about and they included the 10 commandments. He didn't change them to 9. G-d the Father gave 10 and Yeshua never changed that number.

But I just can't get around Colossians on this matter. Outward observances of New Moon's and Sabbath's is directly discussed; it is lumped into all of the other outward observances such as circumcision and diet.

And yet, Romans 14 speaks directly to this and gives us the FREEDOM to observe the days (and Sabbath) as unto the L-rd and not as under the Law.